[Gmecm] Ridiculous MAF MAP responses.

Sun May 22 15:35:45 UTC 2005

The thing is that hte whole selling thing was a maybe. A big maybe. If you 
are to continue to gain new members then you dont want to flame everyone who 
mentions making a few bucks off of it. I have never been out to make money. 
I have built several devices that I just offer to the hobby world. THe onyl 
reason I ever considered selling one was to make someone elses life a little 
eaiser. To make the conversion non EE degree required. In which case they 
would owe money for the device. But anyway the idea has been scrapped. I 
would love to just tune on my camaro but right now it has other isssues i 
must contend with.

On 5/22/05, David Cooley <n5xmt at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
> And on top of Jay's response, I can tell you first hand about leeches 
> trying
> to profit off people's ideas.
> I had built an electronic boost controller for buick GN's that could be
> adapted to any turbo vehicle with an electronic bleed solenoid for boost
> control, or used with the GN solenoid to add control to any vehicle. I had
> hours and housr of time determining the proper frequency, pulsewidth etc 
> to
> control boost without causing a spike, or having boost climb too slowly to
> be useful etc. Box and parts were about 20 bucks worth once the design was
> finalized. I was building them for people and only charging for the cost 
> of
> the parts and housing, and even supplied the proper weatherpack connectors
> so it was a direct plug in.
> Some prick bought one, copied the schematic and started selling them for 
> 75
> bucks and advertising everywhere GN owners freq uented, and even sold one 
> to
> a good friend that I had built one for... He thought it sounded familiar 
> so
> he bought one and compared them... Let me know what the ass was doing. 
> When
> I confronted the jerk, he threatened me with bodily harm. I referenced my
> original messages showing dates I had designed and built (long before he
> started selling) sent copies of my schematic and his to compare how exact
> his were to mine to show it was copied, and even retained the services of 
> an
> attorney. The jerk eventually quit, but the frustration of it all left a
> very sore spot... Hence when you ask "How do I do this to make a 100 
> dollar
> unit" you asked for all the grief you received.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org
> > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Jay Vessels
> > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 9:30 AM
> > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Ridiculous MAF MAP responses.
> >
> > Hi there!
> >
> > I've answered this sort-of out of order, so bear with me.
> >
> > > I am just
> > > appalled at the responses I have gotten from other members.
> >
> > I'm not surprised at the response when you mentioned money,
> > and I'm not surprised at your reaction. Here's the deal:
> > Many people on this list have been burned because their hard
> > work was exploited by someone else for profit. There are a
> > LOT of people on this list that have put a LOT of time
> > researching, experimenting, and studying these systems and
> > the wealth of the collective knowledge here (both on the list
> > and in the
> > archives) is staggering. People feel slighted when someone
> > farms the list of information and uses that to make money.
> > Is it okay to make money working on GMECM stuff? Yes. Is it
> > okay to use knowledge gained from this list? Sure, but don't
> > forget to give back what you learn outside of the list.
> >
> > Take your MAP->MAF translator idea. You've gotten a mix of
> > responses.
> > Take that, mix it with some reading of the archives (pay
> > attention to how MAF systems work, and how MAP systems work),
> > come back with some questions to clarify points you may not
> > get the first time, and then:
> >
> > Take some data. Model it on your PC. Build something. Try
> > it. Post the results.
> >
> > Hook a MAP sensor up to your car and hitch it to your laptop.
> > Gather a big pile of data from the ECM and your MAP sensor,
> > stuff it into a spreadsheet, and see if you can figure out a
> > relationship given the information you have on how GM MAF and
> > MAP systems work. Write up a piece of code (in Matlab,
> > Excel, C, whatever) to test your theory. Get more data and
> > see if it fits.
> >
> > Show the list your work -- you'll get a lot more constructive
> > feedback when you show "Here's what I've been doing and this
> > is what I think is happening" rather than "Tell me everything
> > I need to know".
> >
> > It's a lot of work but I think it will be worth it. It's
> > also the only way you'll get your MAP->MAF box working.
> >
> > >My original intent to charge $100 bucks was to be
> > > a fully assembled conversion kit.
> >
> > This is not meant to discourage starting a small business, but:
> >
> > Buying the parts, programming the ROM(s), assembling the
> > kits, writing and printing the documentation, testing,
> > shipping, and handing tech support calls and warranty
> > concerns is not cheap. "I can build this all myself" may
> > well be true but if you add up your time per box divided into
> > the cash left just after parts procurement, and you're better
> > off mowing lawns. Add in the additional time for tech
> > support (and people will have questions), warranty concerns
> > ("You sent me a junk box! I want another one or my money
> > back! If you don't I'll sue!"), and you have to really
> > *want* to do it as it's a charity case.
> >
> > Oh yeah, the lawyers. What happens if somebody wrecks their
> > car and decides it's because your box failed? True or not,
> > welcome to legal hell. It's mind-boggling how much THAT will
> > cost, but I'd wager you'll spend a good $100k defending yourself ONCE.
> >
> > Which is why you need to indemnify yourself, and one way to
> > do that is have your device manufactured by a local company.
> > They'll want a guaranteed minimum order (probably in the
> > hundreds of units) so you'll have to front some money.
> >
> > It's cool to try to build something that people want,
> > perusing a hobby and making money at it. It's possible to
> > do, and done right you can turn it into a strong business. I
> > just want to make sure you consider all the potential
> > pitfalls, and have a plan to dodge them.
> >
> > Building and selling electronics is not as simple as, say,
> > selling a custom bracket or pretty add-on. The electrical
> > system in an automobile is a very harsh environment. If you
> > don't have a plan to handle ESD, RFI, reversed polarity, and
> > hard shorts to ground and power then your design needs
> > rework. If you don't know what the term "alternator load
> > dump" means or how to handle it, you've got more reading to do.
> >
> > An example of an automobile electronics project that went
> > right (at least, from an outsider-looking-in view) is the
> > DIY-WB project. I'm sure those guys can tell you a lot more
> > than I can about successfully pulling off a small-quantity
> > auto electronics project for the masses.
> >
> > Jay Vessels
> > 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
> > 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 carb. (for now)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gmecm mailing list
> > Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> >
> 
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-- 
Michael Stephens

Electrical Engineering Student
University of Wyoming
http://students.uwyo.edu/falcon
falcon at uwyo.edu or 89iroc at gmail.com
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