[Gmecm] Re: Bandaid turbo tuning

[William Lucke]

 > For every high tech solution, there is prehistoric thinker ready to
 > throw it out the window.

As evidenced by the carbeuretted manifolds for LS1's. That's just an 
enormous WTF all around.

Another thing I really really don't get are the stand alone ignition 
controllers. People buy digital, PC programmable ignition controllers 
with 65,443 bells and whistles... and then fuel the engine with a 
calibrated leak--err... carb.

Talk about neanderthals.



Will



> From: davesnothereman at netscape.net
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Re: injection acronyms, injector placement
> 
> GM 5.7, 6.2, and 6.5 are 3 common examples of indirect injected 
> engines.  Injection timing is critical... prechamber expansion is part 
> of the total timing.
> 
> I agree with the comment about band-aid methods.  But I've seen it work 
> well enough to produce 800HP from a 6 cyl engine.  In some cases there 
> simply are no methods to make ecm based changes, or there are no 
> injectors that can be used.  The GM 2.2 used from '92 to '97 uses a 
> one-off injector which cannot be easily upgraded.  Certain Northstar 
> and Quad 4 ecm's are still not "user tunable."  Do you tell someone to 
> forgo boost for an indefinite amount of time, or do you design and 
> install a band aid system which produces acceptable results until the 
> "right" way to tune becomes available?
> 
> I think you're right that many turbo kits don't include the proper 
> tools, and that the people installing these kits don't understand what 
> it takes to make a good add-on system.  Adding forced induction should 
> not include pouring in enough fuel to quench combustion.  Convering to 
> boost should entail adding the proper amount of fuel combined with 
> decreased spark advance.  The correct add-on tools do exist, the 
> overall desire seems to be lacking.
> 
> For every high tech solution, there is prehistoric thinker ready to 
> throw it out the window.
> 
> Zaphod
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Lucke <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net>
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Sent: Sat, 13 May 2006 22:22:03 -0400
> Subject: [Gmecm] Re: injection acronyms, injector placement
> 
>    I've never heard of a diesel that didn't have direct injection... I 
> thought that was a staple of diesel operation in order to ensure that 
> the combustion event occured at the proper time... like spark timing on 
> a spark ignition engine. Which ones weren't direct?
> 
>  > From: davesnothereman at netscape.net
>  > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Understanding injection system acronyms
>   > > Yep. Injection type depends on placement of injectors, not number 
> of > throttle plates. Diesels have either indirect or direct injection 
> and > no throttle plates.
>   > > Individual throttle barrels may need a common connection for MAP > 
> reference to work with a speed density system.
>  > > Zaphod
>  >
>   I'm aware that the ricers do it... It's my opinion that extra 
> injectors with a turbo kit are just a bandaid because the turbo kits 
> that include extra injectors do not include correct engine management 
> (this applies no matter how pretty the billet aluminum housing is... 
> it's still a billet aluminum bandaid). I was referring to well setup 
> and correctly managed engines that are just too big for single injector 
> per cylinder (like 3,000 HP alcohol burners running 40# of boost on 
> 10:1 compression).
> 
>  > From: davesnothereman at netscape.net
>  > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Understanding injection system acronyms
>  > > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: William Lucke <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net>
>  > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>  > Sent: Sat, 13 May 2006 19:32:38 -0400
>  > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Understanding injection system acronyms
>   > > > In extreme racing engines, particularly dragsters, it is 
> possible to > run both PFI and TBI at the same time... PFI supplies 
> fuel at idle and > low throttle and when the PFI injectors get maxed 
> out, the larger TBI > injectors start spraying. This allows the latent 
> heat of vaporization > of the fuel to cool the intake charge and 
> supplants the need for > intercooling in alcohol fueled forced 
> induction cars.
>   > > It's not just extreme racing engines. The ricer crowd will add > 
> injectors pre TB when adding a turbocharger to a N. A. engine. New > 
> cars, old tricks.
>  > > Zaphod
> 
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> End of Gmecm Digest, Vol 15, Issue 11
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