[Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs

Wed Jan 30 16:19:06 UTC 2013

OK.  I guess it's my turn after finally getting to read the posts.

Been having to deal with issues at home - my wife has MS and developed a bad
case of gall bladder (or what the preliminary indications are - more tests
on Thursday and Friday).  We live in eastern Tennessee so - getting anywhere
takes an hour or more.  HA.  But we love it here in the mountains.

Anyway - here are a few things to bring up to date for the group (many
thanks to all who have the time to devote to this)  J

The engine is a stock 455 from 1976.  It is low compression, but high torque
and runs very well as is.  It is a stock 4-bbl version out of a Delta 98.

Transmission Lockup - I currently control this via a manual switch - it's a
lot more efficient for me given the cruising that we do.

The Trans was built to stand up to the torque of the 455 .  It currently has
a gear driven speedo.

The camshaft will remain the same - I was told that it was stock.  I am
probably going to rebuild the engine sometime this next winter, but for now,
the cam is stock.

I DO NOT have anything ESC or Knock related to a BBC.  All I currently have
are those items for 5.7s and 305s.

As far as running the ESC and Knock - I am not a against it but if it is a
major headache, then I could go a different route.

Distributor - currently running a stock HEI style with in-cap coil.  I read
where the Howell uses a lead from the Tach output to sense engine RPM.  I am
unsure if this substitutes for the ECM needing to know how fast the car is
going but since I don't need to have the ECM lockup the torque converter,
this is optional as well.

Given this info - I will take "off-forum" any further info needed if that is
what someone wants to do.  

I do not have the means to burn a chip but would be more than willing to
send my ECM to anyone that would.  As well as take care of their time with
$$.

I certainly can't express enough gratitude to everyone responding to this
project.  I knew that I couldn't just bolt on the TBI and related controls
and use the 5.7 tune, so this is great info.

It took me a little while to read thru the posts and I may have missed one,
but I'm going to print them all out so I can reference them.

Looking forward to hearing from you all.

Wade.

From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of dozierhc at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:43 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs

Bill...

I offered to burn a 2732 EPROM for Wade, who is really the guy most of those
comments are aimed at.

I told him via this list that I had the burning equipment.

Everything you state is pretty much correct.

I have calibrated lots of engines over the years, and have both TunerCat as
well as Mansur's Tunerpro  software packages, amongst others.

I also have logging software as well.

I really think that Wade will need a custom tune, and therefore that was
mostly the reason why I stated the list of what needs to happen.

We both know that the 455 Olds most likely has a different camshaft and
compression ratio than a 454 (7.4L0, so all the VE stuff and spark need to
be gone through to get a final decent calibration.

But the 455 most likely has closer VE to a 7.4L than a 5.7L.  Same with the
spark.

One thing not even talked about is whether Wade wants to use the ESC module
with a knock sensor.  If so, anothe complexity issue.

I also think that most 5.7L with 700-R4s are probably car, not truck, cals,
and as such the strategy there uses the IAT (and 1228746 ECM).

I actually think having the IAT active is a *good* thing, as it accomodates
a little better fueling control than not having it as the truck existed.
And that was due to the more lenient truck emission standards.

Anyway, right now its Wade's turn to chime in and determine how he wants to
pursue this.

Hank

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-request <gmecm-request at diy-efi.org>
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs (Bill Hamilton)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:14:17 -0800
From: Bill Hamilton <scoutii76 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs
To: gm ecm <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Message-ID: <BAY171-W13023DED26046076B5DE829B01F0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

 Hank,Most of your list is fine.The BPW is already the same.The 5.7 with
61lb/hr 
injectors is close to the 7.4 with 76lb/hr injectors.135 to 134 BPW.
IAC...if 
you want.VE...optional since you are installing this on a different make
engine 
it really doesn't matter since it will need data logged and tuned to the
motor 
anyway.AE...this is like the accel pump on a carb so yes the size of the 
throttle bores will affect the AE.Spark...yes and no. The larger iron 455 is

probaby closer to the 454 for spark requirements. Personally, I have not
found 
any GM spark tables to be very close to the factory carb timing specs. So i 
normally design my own timing tables based on the factory service manual
timing 
specs for the engine I am converting. IAT...was not installed with a 7747
ECM so 
it's not a factor. The car ecm 8746 did use an IAT. So unless you change the
ecm 
to the 8746 to use the code that includes the IAT, it won't help to wire it
in.I 
do have one wired in on my personal vehicle 
 so I can literally grab a 7747 or 8746 and drop it in and drive should I
ever 
lose an ecm on the road. But after building my rig and shipping it to Europe
for 
3 years of on and off roading and never having a break down...it's really
not 
needed. The later 94-95 454 TBI system is a PCM-powertrain control module.
It is 
faster and more capable to control the engine and the trans electronic 
control.The 87-91 is an ecm-engine control module that only controls the 
engine...but can control the TCC-torque converter lockup.GM may have used it
in 
others but I remember the big FAIL of the 454SS with the 700r4.Most bins I
see 
are the turbo 400 and now the 4l80E. But I'm sure they used the
350/700r4/4l60E 
with the 454 in light duty applications. If I was bolting a 700r4 behind a
455 
and dropping it in a big motorhome...it would have some serious beef added
to it 
from a reutable shop and the biggest trans cooler and deepest pan I could
get. 
The ecm only enables the lockup of the TC so you 
 could simply take the AZFT and compare the difference in the trans control
from 
the ARJU bin. Are you just looking for a bin already done for you so you can

just burn it to a chip?If your not familiar with making changes to the bin
then 
let me know. Or just review the basic tuning and chip adjustment threads in
the 
injection forum on binderplanet.com. I have most layed out for anyone to
convert 
their engine from carb to TBI.Just go to the injection forum and click the 
thread that says "Start here"HTHBill To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
From: dozierhc at aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:01:30 -0500
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs

Bill...

Thanks for letting me know that we can merge cals.  If I did so, I think I
need 
to do the following to a 5.7L calibration:

o Use BPW parameters from 7.4L BIN

o Use IAC parameters from 7.4L BIN

o Use VE tables from 7.4L BIN

o Use AE and  fueling table/parameters from 7.4L BIN

o Use spark tables and parameters from 7.4L BIN

o Disable IAT functions, as the truck calibrations had no IAT, only
passenger 
cars (unless Wade wants to wire one in)

The above should get most of it.

What I don't understand is if the 94-95s (which use a later ECM) are
available, 
and the ones I found are available, but from 1987, then where are the ones
from 
1988 through 1993.

I know there have to be different earlier calibrations out there, since the 
Emissions Regulations changed during that time period (Lower HC, CO and NOx 
standards).

So there have to be other earlier than 1994 calibrations for the 7.4L that
were 
on trucks in this time period, and the usage of lockup converters was rolled
out 
in the late 80s.

Where are they?

Hank

-----Original Message-----

From: gmecm-request <gmecm-request at diy-efi.org>

To: gmecm <gmecm at diy-efi.org>

Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:00 pm

Subject: Gmecm Digest, Vol 16, Issue 16

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs (Bill Hamilton)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:08:00 -0800
From: Bill Hamilton <scoutii76 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs
To: gm ecm <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Message-ID: <BAY171-W49B067D9D5A5FC7CF11233B0180 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The 94-95 bin will be for a PCM like the 7427. It will not  work for the
7747 
ECM.But the 7747 was used for the 700r4 so you can take a later 5.7/700r bin

like the ARJU and just copy the 7.4l fuel tables and AE parameters since the
2" 
TBI dumps more air on tip in and the spark table.If you use tunercat you
just 
right click in the table you are working with and select import. Then go
tothe 
AZFT bin and click on it. The entire table will be copied and pasted into
the 
new table. Now you will have a 7.4/700r4 bin. Once running you need to log
data 
with something like winaldl so the chip can be fine tuned for the new
engine.If 
you need help or files let me know. Done!HTHBillHamilton Fuel Injection
 To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
From: dozierhc at aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:35:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs

Wade...

I think these two BINs are too old for you.

Ones is a manual trans, the other is a 3-speed (most likely TH400).

I think you need a later BIN for an early to mid 90s (94-95?) 7.4L (454) TBI

with calibration/software for lockup control of that 700-R4.

I am going to guess (others chime in) that this would be for a pickup (1500)
or 
maybe a light duy van?  7.4L TBI automatic with converter lockup control
(NOT 
4L80E).

If someone can provide that BIN (or link to me as to where to find it), then

that is what you need to start with.

Hank

-----Original Message-----

From: gmecm-request <gmecm-request at diy-efi.org>

To: gmecm <gmecm at diy-efi.org>

Sent: Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:11 am

Subject: Gmecm Digest, Vol 16, Issue 14

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs (Wade )

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:10:36 -0600
From: "Wade " <wades at mountainmanmotors.com>
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Message-ID: <000a01cdfd72$01e13d50$05a3b7f0$@mountainmanmotors.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have a 700R in the Olds currently.  I'd guess the gear ratio (since I
didn't install the rear end in this one) to be in the mid 3's.

Thanks.

From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org
<mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org?> ] On Behalf
Of Robert Saar
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 2:06 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs

ANTZ = 1227747, 1987 R/V 2500/3500 454, 4 speed manual, 3.42/3.73 gears

AZFT = 1227747, 1987 G/R/V 2500/3500 454, 3 speed auto

HTH.

--- On Sun, 1/27/13, dozierhc at aol.com <dozierhc at aol.com> wrote:

From: dozierhc at aol.com <dozierhc at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds - 454 BINs
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Date: Sunday, January 27, 2013, 3:01 PM

Wade...

I have found what I think are two L19 454 (7.4L) BINs.

They are:

antz8364.bin

azft9503.bin

If anybody can give me information as to what these are (MY, transmission,
etc) then maybe one of these will work as-is or as a starter if changed are
needed due to injector differences, etc.

Hank

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-request <gmecm-request at diy-efi.org>
To: gmecm <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:00 pm
Subject: Gmecm Digest, Vol 16, Issue 11

Send Gmecm mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: TBI for 455 Olds (Wade )

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 08:44:36 -0600
From: "Wade " <wades at mountainmanmotors.com
<http://us.mc1635.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wades at mountainmanmotors.com>
> 
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org
<http://us.mc1635.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gmecm at diy-efi.org> >
Message-ID: <034a01cdfc9c$d462b9b0$7d282d10$@mountainmanmotors.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Thanks Joe.  I live in zip 37367.  Could we calculate shipping to that zip
please?

Also, does anyone have the setup to take my existing ECM (I have the 7747
from a Truck - 1/2 ton Chevy and 350 engine) reprogrammed to the 454 specs
or to the 455 modified specs someone else referenced?

I'd appreciate it.  My wife is really wanting to have a smoother running
engine in our Olds.

Thanks again to everyone's shared knowledge.

Wade.

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org
<http://us.mc1635.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org>
[mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org <mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org?> 
<http://us.mc1635.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org
<http://us.mc1635.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org&>
&> ]
On Behalf
Of Joe Vitek
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 4:01 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
<http://us.mc1635.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gmecm at diy-efi.org> 
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI for 455 Olds

I have two 80's Olds 7-pin distributors that I could send ya. I really only
need shipping plus a few bucks for gas. Cheap money.

Dang, this is the first time I have posted the list in like 10 years.

Then again, I am a die hard Olds guy... :)

--
joe
1988 Hurst/Olds 455ci. BBO EFI
1978 Olds Salon 350ci. SBO Olskool carb

On 1/25/2013 12:14 PM, Aaron wrote:
> First I should mention, all my experience comes from installation and 
> some light tuning on two KITS sold for the 73-78 GMC Motorhomes.
> 
> Howell EFI and Turbo City.
> 
> http://howellefi.com/tbi-kit-455-gmc-motorhome-1973-78.html
> 
> Turbo City may be out of business.
> 
> They used GM part with the GM 7747 ECU. It made finding parts on the 
> road easier than customer EFI.
> 
> That Motorhome community is still very strong and active.
> 
> http://www.gmcmotorhomes.com/clubs/directory.html
> 
> Here is a Tech. webpage from the Eastern States GMC Club. It includes 
> two articles on TBI for the 455 in these motorhomes.
> 
> http://www.gmceast.com/technical/
> 
> The good news about the distributor is the size. The 455, 403, 350 and
> 307 all used the same distributor shaft dimensions. The only 
> difference that I ever noticed was the cap clocking position. Meaning 
> the HEI cap has a tab that fits into a notch on the aluminum distributor
housing.
> Some Olds had the notch on the passenger side, some on the driver side.
> The housing can be notched to make the cap "clock" to the position 
> that fits your needs. On the Motorhome, the HEI module to coil wires 
> were longer than normal to reach the other clock position. This was 
> the case in both the standard HEI and EST (Electronic Spark Timing)
distributors.
> We would buy rebuilt distributors from Napa or AutoZone or Rock Auto 
> for a mid to late '80's Olds V8 that had the 7 pin module.
> 
> The bad news is the Distributor to ECU wiring harness does not come 
> with the rebuilt or new parts. We always searched the junk yards for
those.
> V6 or V8 HEI distributors with the EST system all had the same harness.
> 
> Page 131 - 133 on this PDF shows the pictures of what I'm talking about.
> http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Waters_Howell_TBI_Installation.pdf
> 
> As mentioned by another post, BEWARE of the Quadrajet to TBI adapter.
> One of the rear bolts in under the IAC passage AND it LEAKS !!!  A LOT 
> !!!! AND I spent way too much damn time looking for it !!!!
> 
> Page 47 on this PDF shows the location.
> http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Waters_Howell_TBI_Installation.pdf
> 
> As for the code, I think it started as the '89 Chevy C2500 .
> 
> But I've can't research it any more now.
> 
> Aaron
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
<http://us.mc1635.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Gmecm at diy-efi.org> 
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