[Wbo2] Using the Bosch WB sensor with L1H1 circuit board

[Peter Gargano]

allen brown wrote:
>  >We believe our DIY unit, when built, tested and
>  >calibrated as we describe, are as good as the Motec and Autronic units
>  >you'll pay up to AU$2,000 for.


Allan, you asked , so I'll reply, but just this once, because this is 
a DIY forum, and most of the answers below relate to commercial (ie. 
non-DIY) units we also sell, and it's not my business to be 
advertising here.

And list moderator, yes, I will NOT post any more on this topic in 
this forum.

> That is quite a claim. What have you done to verify the accuracy of your 
> unit? Have you built a gas bench to verify response time and accurate 
> reporting of the AFR? What certified test equipment do you have? What 
> test procedures have you used to verify the claims you are making?


A claim verified by many of our customers with Autronic, Motec and 
many other AFR units.

When we (tech Edge) first got serious about AFR (mid 2003), for 
testing, we purchased a couple of $7,000 ETAS units. We regularly test 
our own units against their units. We also test competitors' products 
too. Yes, some of our continuing customers have very favorably tested 
our units against 4 and 5 gas analyzers they also sell.

We sell to a number of dyno manufacturers (who badge engineer our 
units) in a number of different countries and they provide good 
feedback to us on the accuracy and response speed of our units. We've 
also sold units, including large repeat sales, to a number of high 
profile US and European engine tuners and manufacturers (clearly I 
cannot say who these organisations are). From this feedback, we're 
happy that our units' response time and long term stability is better 
than most of the commercial units out there, and certainly better than 
some of the semi-professional units costing many times more than ours.

> Have you had your WB unit independently verified by certified engineers?


No, we don't pay people to test our units. I'd personally find it 
difficult to believe someone's claims that "we paid ABC to test XYZ, 
and here's how fantastically well it works"!

Perhaps someone demonstrably impartial will take on the task of 
independently testing our unit against other units, and against a 
recognised industrial standard.

We have recently considered getting UL/CSA certification, but very few 
potential customers would require this (and anyway, this is an 
environmental standard, not a "performance" standard).

> What type of environmental testing has been done on your units? Are all 
> of the components used in your product been qualified for automotive 
> use? Are the circuit boards conformal coated? What is the temperature 
> range of the components used?


We sell a number of units in a number of different forms. Here's a 
short summary showing DIY status, construction (TH = Through Hole, SMD 
= Surface Mount), on-board logging memory size, case construction (ABS 
= Plastic, Al = extruded Al.). and a short feature list.

model  DIY  const.  log mem  case  features
---------------------------------------------------------------------
  2A0   yes   TH      32k     ABS   First LSU DIY model (now rev-4)
  2A1   yes   TH       1M     ABS   updated 2A0 with 1 Mbyte memory
  2B0    -    RH      32k      Al   First non-DIY model
  3B1    -   SMD       1M      Al   professional model, LSU 4.9 support
  2C0    -   SMD       -      ABS   small size
  2D0    -    TH       -       -    OEM
  2D1    -   SMD       -       -    OEM, SMD
  2E0   yes   TH       -      ABS   DIY, inbuilt display
  3H1    -   SMD       1M      Al   professional model, DUAL channel

  LD02 display = DIY
  LA1  display = SMD

Clearly, some of the models are intended for DIY applications, and as 
such they are presented and sold as such. Our professional models are 
just that, and are designed, presented, use industrial rated 
components, and are supported as such. We expect similar performance 
and accuracy from our DIY models as from the professional models, and 
have not "dumbed down" our DIY units so we can sell a better 
professional model. Our models are evolutionary, and we continually 
update our hardware and firmware, including adding features to "older" 
models.

Of course, when we sell a DIY kit, we cannot assure the purchaser of 
the unit's end-result performance because it depends in part on how 
well the unit is constructed, tested , etc. we do however offer a 
"fix-it" service and regularly get "basket case" units (soldered with 
a blow torch?) to fix, which we generally achieve.

Yes, our new SMD 3.0 range will be conformally coated, but we still 
don't rate them to be used in the engine compartment. For over a year 
now we have sold our cables with a fibreglass covering rather than the 
low cost nylon sheath we originally used.  We don't "pot" or 
encapsulate any of our models because we consider repairability a big 
factor in our designs.

> Or is it just another 'hobby' product you as so famous for?


I appreciate the compliment. To do justice to your question I should 
explain the journey from "hobby", to where Tech Edge is currently.

Tech Edge's Lambda meter involvement started off back in 2002 with a 
PCB we sold with components, and a DIY display kit based on a Jaycar 
commercial DIY kit. The wideband was basically the DIY-WB design, and 
I intended selling all 24 of the 25 PCBs I had made, and then calling 
it quits. I had this PCB made because a small number of the US DIY-EFI 
community at the time denied me the opportunity to buy the DIY-WB PCB 
that had just been made available to people primarily in the USA, and 
I had wanted to just cover my costs (mostly expensive postage charges) 
by offering a local group buy of parts. Shortly after this, I was 
inundated with request from people to make more PCBs and make them 
available with components. Then people wanted me to sell them built 
and tested units. So, I first contracted someone to help me build 
units, then later I employed people to build, test, and ship our units 
- this was in Mid 2003, and this was when I took my OZ-DIY-WB hobby 
and gave it to Tech Edge, which is the company I had formed some years 
earlier.

All this time I had recognised the shortcoming of the original design, 
so, after making some improvements, we came out with the version 1.5 
design (still using the now expensive L1H1 sensor) and called the 
original design the 1.0 unit. Looking at the 1.5 design now, and in 
the light of Tech Edge's current expertise, I cringe a little, but 
that design did work well, and I regularly get emails saying how their 
1.5 unit is still working really well, except that the replacement 
sensors are so expensive!

As soon as we had designed the 1.5 unit, I realised we needed a model 
that used the LSU sensor that was being made available for less than 
US$30 compared to the NTK sensor that had risen to over US$180. I 
started to design this myself but, as the business was expanding, I 
engaged a local engineer to help. We designed, from the ground up, the 
2A0 primarily as a DIY unit that would use the low cost LSU, but we 
later added L1H1 compatibility due to customer demand.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the idea that we actively support 
the DIY model and this is primarily why I am spending time to address 
this email to the DIY community. So, while we're not a hobby 
organisation at all, DIY is certainly important to us.  I should also 
point out that our current 2.0 range shares nothing with the original 
DIY-WB design, other than that it measures residual oxygen content! 
Our 2.0 was designed in-house from the ground up without reference to 
the DIY-WB design.


Lastly, Allen Brown, if you have a problem with my own DIY activities 
in the past, perhaps you can be a little more forthcoming in 
explaining why you should care. You could also explain why you single 
Tech Edge out when there are others who have clearly profited, and 
without acknowledgment, from the original DIY-WB design.

Peter Gargano
--
Tech Edge Pty. Ltd.    http://techedge.com.au     http://WBo2.com
ph : (02) 6251 5519    Int'l : +612 6251 5519     Fax : +612 6251 0558
Street addr : 37 Jalanga Cres.,  Aranda,  ACT 2614, Australia
Postal addr : PO Box 288, Jamison Centre, ACT 2614