Solenoid Wanted

Tue Jun 11 19:17:02 GMT 1996

Here is a post that was made a couple years ago to the hotrod list, when 
JGD was moderating it on dixie.com, and all was right in the world...

The only comment I have is the description of how the switch works.  The 
poster used a contact switch inside the carb to decide when to turn the 
water on.  That sounds dangerous to me.  Seems like a switch on the 
throttle would be better, or a vacuum switch.  He mentioned that he 
selected a low-impedance relay, when he should have selected a 
high-impedance relay.  Anyway, here it is...

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From: hotrod at dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
Subject: Re: H20 injection
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Date: Fri, 06 May 94 23:30:53 GMT
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>Chip,
> 
>  > I too have had good result with water injection in my '66 Mustang with
>  > 10.5 CR.  I run 87 octane and never get a knock.
> 
>Sounds like just like what I'm looking for.
> 
>  > My system is quite refined to get the mixture ratios perfect yet, but
>  > it's getting close.
> 
>How do you know that the mixture isn't setup quite right? Does it stumble 
or
>do something else?
> 
>  > Let me know  if you want me to discribe my home made system.  It cost 
me
>  > about $35 to  build.
> 
>I for one would like to get a description.
> 
>Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
>Matt.

>----------
>Posted by: emory!genie.geis.com!p.beaubien1

Since I've had quite a bit of response about water injection I'll go 
ahead and post what I've written to others about my water injection system.

I learned almost everything I know about H2O injection from the Hotrod
list, so you might want to start by downloading all the late '92 and early
'93 archives of the list and searching for keywords like H20 and water. 

My system is no where near perfect yet, but I have some ideas how to get 
it there which I will be trying within the next month.  To start with 
I'll describe the situation mine is running under.  My engine is '289 V-8 
with the Edelbrock Performer RPM package (intake, cam, and edelbrock 
suggested head work)  I decided to go a step further than their package 
though.  They suggest 9.5 compression and 93 octane gas.  I went with 
10.5 compression because I love torque.  This obviously creates a problem 
with running any pump gas, and it did.  My engine knocks like crazy on 94 
octane with 1 oz lead added per gallon which makes it 96 octane.  I had 
to seek a solution to fix my knock and not spend a fortune on race 
blends.  Cheapest solution I've found is water injection.  I spent my 
load on the engine build up so I had to go cheap on the injection.  In 
doing so I fabricated a few parts (water tank, injectors, electronic 
control box, and vacuum switch).

The biggest problem in trying to retrofit my system to another car is the 
vacuum switch.  The switch on my system is a modification to my Edelbrock 
Performer carb.  The Performer carb has metering rods controlled by vacuum 
signal.  This worked out great for me since I needed injection when the 
engine was under load and the metering rods would raise up in the carb to 
switch the carb to power mode.  My modification was changing the cover 
plate for changing the rods, to a contact which the plunger, that drives 
the rods, would touch when the carb is in power mode.  This turns my 
water injection on whenever the carb goes into power mode.  This works 
ok, but is what I will be changing in my system in order to work out its 
flaws.  More on my idea for a better switching system later.

The injectors were almost too easy once I thought of them.  Since my 
intake is dual plane I needed two injectors.  My solution: Basket ball 
needles.  Since the water is best to not be vaporized when entering the 
cylinders, these worked out great.  All I did was solder the end whole 
shut so water could only come out the side and spot weld them to my air 
cleaner so they would shoot straight down the primary throats of my carb.  
When water is flowing the primaries are always open enough for the water 
to go straight through the carb and splash on the bottom of the intake.  
Any techies out there know if this theory is right, or should the water 
be vaporized?  I haven't heard much argument either way?

The water tank was the easiest to design but took the longest to
construct.  My tank holds 3 gallons of water.  ('66 Mustangs have a lot of
room to play with under the hood.) This lasts about 4 tanks of gas (about
220 miles per tank).  I would try and achieve at least 1 gallon capacity,
when building your own tank.  The tank is made of plexiglass which is
seamed with household silicone caulk.  The tank is supported in a frame
constructed of 1" angle steel welded together. 

To drive the injection I used a window washer pump.  The only 
restrictions on chosing a pump is make sure it is an impeller pump so you 
have a continuous flow of water.  The flow rate is controlled by a valve in 

line between the pump and the injectors.  

The circuitry is an important part of my systems operation.  Since my 
switch was inside my carb exposed to fuel vapor I had to avoid any 
sparks being generated.  My switch simply closes a ground so only one 
wire runs to my carb.  To turn the pump on I have a 10 amp, 12 volt relay 
I bought at radio shack.  The coil is charged when the wire to the carb 
is grounded.  The coil is I believe 320 ohm resistance so very little 
energy is required to flow through the coil reducing the chance of a 
spark.  The pump is powered whenever the relay is closed.  I also have 
a switch I added in the interior of my car to shut the injection off when 
the motor is not running, because without vacuum to open my switch water 
would flow with the engine is off and ignition turn on, like when 
starting the engine.  The circuitry will be growing more complex as I 
revise my system.  

The draw backs to my system as it stands now is only one flow rate for 
the water.  To fix that I am going to be constructing a multi stage vacuum 
switch.  How I plan to do this is similar to the way my carb knows when 
to go to power mode.  The vacuum of the intake is below a plunger 
sitting on a spring.  Right now this has only on or off operation.  I'm 
going to to make a longer tube for one of these plungers to ride on a 
taller spring.  I inherited a lathe so this is not a challenge to make.  
The tube will have small holes drilled through them on the side so light 
will shine from one side and be received on the other side by light 
sensitive resistors (sold at radio shack, I can remember what they are 
called right now).  These resistors will be wired to a series of relays 
which will power the pump through various resistors to run the pump at 
different speeds.  I'm going to try 4 stages of flow at first if that is 
still not enough flow control I will increase the number of stages.  
Here's a rough  side view of the vacuum switch:

	 _____     Top will have a small hole to allow air in the top.
	|     |
	|     |
        |  o  |    Stage four,  Very low vacuum at this point like at 
	|     |    wide open throttle when lots of water is needed.
        |     |
        |  o  |    Stage three
        |     |
	|     |
        |  o  |    Stage two
	|     |
	|     |
        |  o  |    Stage one, small flow rate when plunger first covers 
	|     |    this hole and stops light. 
	| ___ |
	||   ||
	||   ||
	||   ||
	||   ||
	||   ||
	||   ||
	||___||
	| \   |
	|  \  |    Spring long enough to push plunger to top of cylinder 
	|   \ |	   under low vacuum.  Vacuum signal is routed to the
	|____\|	   bottom of the cylinder from the intake.

The location of the holes will have to be determined experimentally.  

My investments in this system thus far:
  Water pump:  $12 (auto zone)
  plexi-glass: $6  (WalMart)
  angle steel: $4  (local steel supply)
  basket ball needles: $0.75 (WalMart)
  Relay: $1.99 (Radio Shack)
  Circuit box: $0.99 (Radio Shack)
  Silicone Caulk: $3.75 (WalMart)
  Wire and widow washer hose I had laying around.
  Interior switch: $1.99 (Radio Shack)  

  I spent about $10 working with a throttle switch, which I scrapped for 
the interior switch.

Adding my new switching system will probably cost about $20 - $30 in
material, it will require 4 relays, 4 light sensors, light bulb, and about
6" of 3/4" brass stock. 

Any questions, let me know.  I'd probably be willing to sell a copy of my 
final system when working.  I could reconstruct the system fairly easily 
after doing it once.

Chip Schweiss
lschweis at nyx.cs.du.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!nyx10.cs.du.edu!lschweis (Lester Schweiss)

Steve Ravet
sravet at bangate.compaq.com
Baby you're a genius when it comes to cooking up some chili sauce...