water injection

[James Montebello]

F1 does use gasoline, and has since 1948.  What they call "gasoline"
sometimes varied considerably from what comes out of the local
pump, but it's supposed to be 104 RON unleaded gas, and they
test for this.  F1 cars also aren't turbocharged anymore, haven't
been for 10 years, so there's no problem with elevated temps caused
by boost.  When they ran turbos, water injection *was* used pretty
widely (at least up to about '85, when Williams was disqualified
one race because they refilled the water tanks prior to being
weighed at race end, raising the car to 20lbs over the minimum
weight from 10-15lbs under).  These engines all used gigantic
intercoolers, too.  When you're running 5 bar (72.5psi!) of
boost (as they did in the heyday of the turbo era), anything
you can do to prevent detonation is a Good Thing.  Getting
1500hp out of 1500cc is not an easy thing.

IndyCars (ChampCars, CART, whatever) all run methanol, and have
for decades.  A common (and more effective) alternative to water injection
is alcohol injection (actually, usually a mix), and
methanol *is* an alcohol.  I'm speaking over my head here, but
it may very well be that the evap cooling of methanol is so good
that water injection is simply superfluous.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-diy_efi at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
> [mailto:owner-diy_efi at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Roger
> Heflin
> Sent: Friday, December 18, 1998 9:44 AM
> To: diy_efi at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
> Subject: Re: water injection
>
>
>
> F1 and Indy type cars don't use gas so why would they need water
> injection?  The stuff they are using is much higher octane, so
> detonation is much harder.
>
> 			Roger
>
> On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Pedro Haynes wrote:
>
> > Running a water injection system is a waste of time I must
> say. The only
> > thing it does is cool the combustion chamber and thus
> prevent detonation.
> > With proper intercooling, the right advance and sensable boost, (use
> > calculations), there is no need for water injection. Water
> injection is
> > about 20 steps back, do you know of any F1 cars that use
> water injection?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Running out of water on a water injection system will
> cause the engine
> > >to knock, so getting too much air  (and given the amount
> of air ithat
> > >most engines use, I really cannot see a hose of the size
> you would be
> > >using suppling enough  air to make any significant difference).
> > >Running out of water when you are using it to allow more advanced
> > >timing would be potentially fatal to your engine no matter
> how you do
> > >it.   Probably it would be best not to run out of water with any
> > >system, since the water pump will also probably pump air
> pretty good
> > >too.  Also the nozzles may limit the air soo much that there is not
> > >enough volume to worry about (of air).
> > >
> > >				Roger
> > >
> > >On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 TMead17327 at aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> Wouldn't there be a problem with leaning out when the
> water ran out?  It
> > >> doesn't sound very good to suddenly inject extra air
> into the manifold
> > without
> > >> telling the fuel system about it.  I guess it depends on
> how you measure
> > your
> > >> intake air (MAP, MAF, etc.)
> > >>
> > >> Tommy
> > >> TMead17327 at aol.com
> > >>
> > >> In a message dated 12/17/98 11:57:32 AM Central Standard Time,
> > >> rah at horizon.hit.net writes:
> > >>
> > >> <<
> > >>  Here is an odd thought, what about putting the water in
> a pressure
> > >>  tank of some sort and putting compressed air over it.
> Enough volume
> > >>  of compressed air, and you should be able to maintain a
> fairly decent
> > >>  pressure until most of the water runs out.   You would
> of course have
> > >>  to air up after putting the water in, and probably put
> the thing in
> > >>  the trunk or someplace with a similar amount of room.
> And probably
> > >>  you would need a pressure regulator on the water, or
> some way to sense
> > >>  the watter pressure, and adjust the nozzle PW to get
> the correct flow.
> > >>
> > >>  			Just an odd idea
> > >>  			Roger
> > >>   >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>