Flexible Fuels

[Kurek, Lawrence]

My experience with Nitro has to do with model boat racing. Granted, the
engines are a bunch smaller, but when I can get well over 5 HP from a
3.5cc engine...I love the stuff. But I digress...

There *ARE* injectors that currently exist that flow near 100 lbs. Even
with a 3:1 ratio that the Nitro needs, running 2-3 sets of these should
do the trick. Yes, you still have the problem with the mags (2 of em
even...slightly out of sync) generating EMR, but you can shield for
that. Again, you won't have the ignition control, but you SHOULD be able
to run one of those beasties fuel systems EFI.

BTW...I know what you mean about the baby poop comment....seen what it
does to racing oil after a run with a dropped cylinder that loaded
up...not pretty.

TTYL

Larry Kurek


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Bill Allen [SMTP:BAllen at Vetronix.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, June 23, 1998 11:11 AM
> To:	'diy_efi at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'
> Subject:	RE: Flexible Fuels
> 
> Hi,
> Although I'm new to the list, I'm going to jump in here and try to
> save
> you a bunch of parts. I've had a fair amount of experience with nitro
> in
> top fuel drag racing. Although nitro is not as bad as a lot of people
> think, it can eat parts faster than you can spit. So, here goes....
> 
> 	To even get the stuff going, you need a really good ignition, as
> in magneto. Even high energy aftermarket electronic ignitions don't
> have
> the spark length to reliably fire nitro. And if you don't get the
> stuff
> lit really well, it'll melt pistons (remember, nitro releases free O2
> molecules when it burns, so its like nitrous oxide in that regard).
> Keeping it rich will help, but to do that you need an even better,
> really good ignition. 
> 
> The real problem is that nobody makes an EFI controller that will work
> with a mag. Too much electromagnetic interference for it to work,
> especially under load. A mag's primary voltage increases with RPM, so
> it
> just gets worse as you go up. 
> 
> As for controlling the mixture, nitro needs about 3:1 AFR. Good luck
> getting that much stuff in there, even with multiple injectors. Also,
> nitro has NO lubrication qualities, it eats most rubber compounds and
> creates a nice soupy mess out of your crankcase oil (turns it to
> something akin to baby poop!). So the bottom line is that unless you
> are
> racing in a fuel class, have lots of cubic dollars and like to build
> motors a lot, I wouldn't mess with it.
> 
> Just my spew...
> 
> Bill Allen
> 	-----Original Message-----
> 	From:	Clive Apps   Techno-Logicals   416 510 0020
> [SMTP:clive at problem.tantech.com]
> 	Sent:	Tuesday, June 23, 1998 6:37 AM
> 	To:	diy_efi at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
> 	Subject:	Re: Flexible Fuels
> 
> 	> 
> 	> Hi everyone, I am the proud owner of a Ford 429 that is going
> to get
> 	> to its next logical step, differing fuels.  I don't know if it
> would be
> 	> methanol would require at least twice the injector duration as
> gasoline,
> 	> and to burn it would probably require one of those fancy
> linear oxygen
> 	> sensors since alcohol likes to be run a bit on the rich side
> to keep
> 
> 	how about 2 sets of injectors
> 	use both with the alcohol fuel and only the main set with gas
> 	then you can run only one fuel map and adjust the 2nd injector
> size/pressure to
> 	maintian fuel curve values
> 	alcohol does not have to run rich, it can be made to run clean
> with a little
> 	tweaking
> 
> 	> I wonder if it would also be possible to run nitromethane
> while playing
> 	> around, and then switch back to gasoline for the drive home?
> 
> 	nitrometh needs a lot of timing advance, it is hard to light
> 	but you should be able to do this
> 	> 
> 	> Also, will injectors put up with water, since both methanol
> and nitro
> 	> are sometimes mixed with up to 5% water in order to keep
> things nice and
> 	> cool.
> 
> 	in solution it should be fine, pure water may not be too great
> for injectors
> 	but you have the fuel as a lubricant anyways
> 	> 
> 	> And, since this motor will be used in a 4wd pickup (please
> don't tell me
> 	> I'm crazy, I already know that), will individual injectors
> give a big
> 	> boost in low (sub 1000) RPM torque, or will TBI be good
> enough.
> 
> 	indivudual injectors are better across the entire range, and
> give better
> 	fuel control, distribution and tunability
> 	> 
> 	> And last, are there any computer systems out there that can
> control
> 	> boost pressure much like timing, to compensate for the knock
> sensitivity
> 	> of different fuels?
> 
> 	Turbo and High Tech performance magazine lists a number of these
> 
> 	> Thanks for answers to any of these.
> 
> 	Clive