Honda/NGK O2 sensor part # versus Horiba/NGK O2 sensor part #s

[Garfield Willis]

On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 05:14:55 +0200, "Axel Rietschin"
<Axel_Rietschin at compuserve.com> wrote:

>> On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 04:22:18 +0200, "Axel Rietschin"
>> <Axel_Rietschin at compuserve.com> wrote:
>
>> You will in a moment; bear with me.
>
>You start implying a little too much...

Ease up, mate; I'm on your side. I'm just tryna get the particulars
down. I think you might have missed a previous thread that could have
saved you some trouble...read on, and see.

>The Honda sensor was used with its own resistor, and produced a wrong
>reading. The other sensor was also used with its own resistor, and produce a
>good reading.
>
>I think I cannot make myself more clearer. The reading is different between
>the sensor sourced from my ECU manufacturer and the sensor sourced from
>Honda. Both were used with their own calibrating resistors, said resistor
>are inside the respective plug of each sensor and was never removed or
>altered in anyway.

You're right, your assumption that because you've attached what you'd
expected was the same sensor, with their respective cal R's, that IF
they were the same sensor type, they should have both performed equally
well. Right? Right. Perfectly clear; so what could POSSIBLY be wrong
with your thinking?

Apparently you hadn't been following the list traffic about the "tactic"
that FelPro is ALSO using to lock their customers into them being the
only source of sensors, altho they ARE indeed also Honda/NTK sensors.

I posted about this, so if you missed it, don't shoot me.

I gave an example right SMACK on this list at least a couple times that
even in FelPro's case of using the same Honda/NTK sensor, they
apparently do NOT on-the-fly derive the cal from reading the resistor in
the sensor housing; AND I said point-blank that I thot this was a sad
'business' decision on their part to provide neither a free-air
calibration method NOR read the cal R value from the connector housing
(not as good a method, since it doesn't compensate for aging like a
free-air cal procedure does). We KNEW this because FelPro was also
insisting you could NOT substitute with commercially available sensors,
AND that you had to get the sensor from THEM and have them calibrate it
to your ECU. Sure, you changed the CAL R, (thinking you'd out-smarted
the vendor?, but they out-smarted you :); since the ECU doesn't read it,
but uses it's own internally stored CAL instead, you got bit by your
vendor's cute lil tactic to lock you in. Didn't you see that post about
FelPro's scheme?

After talking to someone (a list member) who recently got two of them
(SpeedPro's w/WBO2 option), and checked that the sensors are indeed the
Honda/NTKs, I was told that the way they handle the calibration of
sensor to ECU is ...drum roll... you order a new sensor from
SpeedPro/FelPro (and only them), and they send you a new sensor AND a
floppy disc with the cal info to burn into the ECU. How's THAT for a
scam!? Altho the info is right there in the sensor, they don't read IT,
instead they require it to come into the ECU via their "special floppy".

That way, they lock the sensor and controller together as a pair, and
lock you into being able to get them calibrated ONLY from them. Not
because there's anything special about the sensor; it's just that they
keep secret from you HOW to cal it to your box! That means you CAN'T
just swap sensors inNout!

>As far as I recall, the sensors themselves are undistinguishable from each
>other to the naked eye.

OK, I'll trust that you would have noticed a significant difference
between the two. The sensor tips are distinctly different in some cases.
See my other post on this issue.

It's probly the same sensor, alright; otherwise you wouldn't have been
able to swap it out so easily; it's simply NOT the same calibration as
the original sensor, hence your AFR was fatally off. If it had been a
completely different sensor ala NTK-direct vrs. Honda/NTK, you would
have been a HELL of alot futher off than just 12.5AFR vrs 13.8AFR
(0.86Lambda vrs. 0.95), and you've have probly been more suspicious.

How you likely got bit was you assumed that the cal R was actually being
used for the calibration. Since you weren't aware of the trick the
FelPro guys (and now almost certainly others) have played with "you MUST
buy your sensors from US", you didn't suspect anything sneaky going on.
So you melted a few pistons, and by gawd, I'll bet you'll never buy
another sensor from anyone else but Pectel!

Cute huh?

Gar


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