Twin Centrifugals VS Single

BamaInstrument BamaInstrument at email.msn.com
Tue Apr 17 21:37:59 GMT 2001


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I like the concept and have been looking at something similar.  It seems =
that a large centrifugal supercharger would work okay, but I don't like =
the pressure/flow (and thus) torque curve.  The results from a =
centrifugal unit are something like the square of the tip speed.  If the =
diameter of the charger is larger then the tip speed can be accomplished =
with a lower RPM.  I've been looking at gearing directly to the crank, =
as opposed to belt drive.  The cam is a VERY high and variable load to =
the crank and seems to be handled quite well

I like the concept of some type of variable gearing.  The early Paxtons =
(?) did this by changing the driven pulley diameter.  Mainly I'd like to =
have a much broader torque range than would be available with the =
current engine centrifugal super chargers.

dh

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Walter Sherwin=20
  To: gmecm at diy-efi.org ; diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
  Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:25 AM
  Subject: Twin Centrifugals VS Single


  Forwarded from another list.....



  >Here's something I've been tossing around in my mind, for street toy =
use, and I'd love to hear more from the group........

  >Let's say you have a large displacement stroker motor, and you desire =
to artificially stuff it's hunger with centrifugal supercharging (non =
manufacturer specific at this >point).  The typical approach today would =
be to seek out a largish single centrifugal unit that would do the dirty =
job, and pulley it to gain the max desired air flow/boost at >a specific =
engine speed.  This would net you a large diameter centrifugal, =
operating at a somewhat less than maximum impeller speed, hung from one =
side of your >engine.  This would work, and you would prolly have a cog =
belt drive arrangement as a result, if you wanted serious manifold =
pressure.  Of course this will generate a new >force/belt vector load at =
the nose of the crank, that may or may not affect your front bearings.  =
One might even direct the output of this large compressor to a single =
>inter/aftercooler device for post cooling.

  >Let's consider a different approach......

  >What about mounting two smaller centrifugals, low on the motor, =
perhaps directly opposed to the crank centerline so as to cancel the =
belt load vectors.  Further imagine >the discharge(s) from these =
compressors being directed thru two parallel inter/aftercooler =
exchangers (ala: Porsche twin turbo setups).  The twin intercoolers =
might be a >bit easier to position within a street vehicle.  At an =
esoteric design level, twins could allow a person to fabricate an engine =
bay setup that has a symmetric and artful >appearance.

  >Cost aside, does anyone see any further advantages/disadvantages to =
running two slightly smaller compressors in place of one larger unit?  =
Obviously, the cost will be >higher with twins.  I'm more wondering =
about airflow versus crank speed, throttle response, boost response =
profile, parasitic drain at a given combined flow/pressure, >etc.   =20

  >Thoughts would be appreciated;
  >Walt.




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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I like the concept and have been looking at =
something=20
similar.&nbsp; It seems that a large centrifugal supercharger would work =
okay,=20
but I don't like the pressure/flow (and thus) torque curve.&nbsp; The =
results=20
from a centrifugal unit are something like the square of the tip =
speed.&nbsp; If=20
the diameter of the charger is larger then the tip speed can be =
accomplished=20
with a lower RPM.&nbsp; I've been looking at gearing directly to the =
crank, as=20
opposed to belt drive.&nbsp; The cam is a VERY high and variable load to =
the=20
crank and seems to be handled quite well</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I like the concept of some type of variable =
gearing.&nbsp; The=20
early Paxtons (?) did this by changing the driven pulley diameter.&nbsp; =
Mainly=20
I'd like to have a much broader torque range than would be available =
with the=20
current engine centrifugal super chargers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>dh</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dwsherwin at home.com href=3D"mailto:wsherwin at home.com">Walter =
Sherwin</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dgmecm at diy-efi.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:gmecm at diy-efi.org">gmecm at diy-efi.org</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 13, 2001 =
12:25=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Twin Centrifugals VS=20
Single</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Forwarded from another list.....</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;Here's something I've been tossing around in =
my mind,=20
  for street toy use, and I'd love to hear more from the=20
  group........</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;Let's say you have a large displacement =
stroker motor,=20
  and you desire to artificially stuff it's hunger with centrifugal=20
  supercharging (non manufacturer specific at this &gt;point).&nbsp; The =
typical=20
  approach today would be to seek out a largish single centrifugal unit =
that=20
  would do the dirty job, and pulley it to gain&nbsp;the max =
desired&nbsp;air=20
  flow/boost at &gt;a specific engine speed.&nbsp; This would&nbsp;net =
you a=20
  large diameter centrifugal, operating at a somewhat less than maximum =
impeller=20
  speed, hung from one side of your &gt;engine.&nbsp; </FONT><FONT =
size=3D2>This=20
  would&nbsp;work, and you would prolly&nbsp;have a cog belt drive =
arrangement=20
  as a result, if you wanted serious manifold pressure.&nbsp; Of course =
this=20
  will generate a new &gt;force/belt vector load at the nose of the =
crank, that=20
  may or may not affect your front bearings.&nbsp; One might even direct =
the=20
  output of this large compressor to a single &gt;inter/aftercooler =
device for=20
  post cooling.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;Let's consider a different =
approach......</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;What about mounting two smaller centrifugals, =
low on the=20
  motor, perhaps directly opposed to the crank centerline so as to =
cancel the=20
  belt load vectors.&nbsp; Further imagine &gt;the discharge(s) from =
these=20
  compressors being directed thru two parallel inter/aftercooler =
exchangers=20
  (ala: Porsche twin turbo setups).&nbsp; The twin intercoolers might be =
a=20
  &gt;bit easier to position within a street vehicle.&nbsp; At an =
esoteric=20
  design level, twins could allow a person to&nbsp;fabricate an engine =
bay setup=20
  that has a symmetric and artful &gt;appearance.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;Cost aside,&nbsp;does anyone see any further=20
  advantages/disadvantages&nbsp;to running two slightly smaller =
compressors in=20
  place of one larger unit?&nbsp; Obviously, the cost will be &gt;higher =
with=20
  twins.&nbsp; I'm more wondering about airflow versus crank speed, =
throttle=20
  response, boost response profile, parasitic drain at a given combined=20
  flow/pressure, &gt;etc.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;Thoughts would be appreciated;</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>&gt;Walt.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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