DIY_EFI Digest V5 #723

Gregory Dimitriadis greg-tec at otenet.gr
Thu Aug 30 13:50:17 GMT 2001 

Jason, The dual read about the NTK and the Bosch sensor is introduced
first by Autronic Air fuel ratio meters. Take a look: www.turbofast.com.au



----- Original Message -----
From: DIY_EFI Digest <DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner at diy-efi.org>
To: <DIY_EFI-Digest at lists.diy-efi.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:00 AM
Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #723


>
> DIY_EFI Digest        Thursday, August 30 2001        Volume 05 : Number
723
>
>
>
> In this issue:
>
> wide band O2 sensor image on Motec web site  [was Re: DIY-WB]
> Re: wide band O2 sensor image on Motec web site  [was Re: DIY-WB]
> Re: wide band O2 sensor image on Motec web site  [was Re: DIY-WB]
> Bosch wide band O2 sensor
> Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice
> Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice, The answer........
> Re: wide band O2 sensor image on Motec web site
> Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice/welding
>
> See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the
> DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:49:28 -0500
> From: "Jason Haines" <jhaines15 at home.com>
> Subject: wide band O2 sensor image on Motec web site  [was Re: DIY-WB]
>
> Has anyone seen the new version of Motec's wide band lambda meter? In the
> background of the image they have an O2 sensor that I am not sure I
> recognize. Is this the Bosch UEGO sensor (not the LSM 11 sensor, the other
> one used with the higher end Bosch wide band meters)? The Motec wide band
> page is:
>
> http://www.motec.com/plm.htm
>
> The image itself is http://www.motec.com/images/plm.jpg
>
> If you go to the price list, they only list one wide band sensor (and
don't
> say if it is Bosch or NGK). The part number looks like a
shortened/modified
> Bosch number ( M 0258 002 ). Motec used to use the LSM 11 style Bosch wide
> band sensor with their EFI systems (I am not sure if they still do).
>
> The technical specifications are interesting, this is the first meter I
have
> seen that will read the Bosch and the NGK sensors. It also has an
> auto-detect feature so it can figure out which sensor it is connected to.
> They also refer to using the calibration resister on the wideband sensors
> (although they don't specify if this is on the NGK, the Bosch or both).
The
> technical specifications can be found at:
>
> http://www.motec.com/technical.htm
>
> Has anyone seen or used one of these meters? How much do they cost?
>
>
> Jason
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:15:28 +1000
> From: Richard Wakeling <kojab at optushome.com.au>
> Subject: Re: wide band O2 sensor image on Motec web site  [was Re: DIY-WB]
>
> Hi Jason,
>     The Sensor you see is probably a Bosch 6 wire.
> Price is from memory about $1600 AUST  ($800 US)
> I have used one. Display box you see is very small but easy to read. I am
> surprised how they get all the control circuit and display in such a small
> package.
>
> Cheers Richard
>
> Jason Haines wrote:
>
> > Has anyone seen the new version of Motec's wide band lambda meter? In
the
> > background of the image they have an O2 sensor that I am not sure I
> > recognize. Is this the Bosch UEGO sensor (not the LSM 11 sensor, the
other
> > one used with the higher end Bosch wide band meters)? The Motec wide
band
> > page is:
> >
> > http://www.motec.com/plm.htm
> >
> > The image itself is http://www.motec.com/images/plm.jpg
> >
> > If you go to the price list, they only list one wide band sensor (and
don't
> > say if it is Bosch or NGK). The part number looks like a
shortened/modified
> > Bosch number ( M 0258 002 ). Motec used to use the LSM 11 style Bosch
wide
> > band sensor with their EFI systems (I am not sure if they still do).
> >
> > The technical specifications are interesting, this is the first meter I
have
> > seen that will read the Bosch and the NGK sensors. It also has an
> > auto-detect feature so it can figure out which sensor it is connected
to.
> > They also refer to using the calibration resister on the wideband
sensors
> > (although they don't specify if this is on the NGK, the Bosch or both).
The
> > technical specifications can be found at:
> >
> > http://www.motec.com/technical.htm
> >
> > Has anyone seen or used one of these meters? How much do they cost?
> >
> > Jason
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:27:32 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Frank F Parker <fparker at umich.edu>
> Subject: Re: wide band O2 sensor image on Motec web site  [was Re: DIY-WB]
>
> >
> > The image itself is http://www.motec.com/images/plm.jpg
>
> > say if it is Bosch or NGK). The part number looks like a
shortened/modified
> > Bosch number ( M 0258 002 ). Motec used to use the LSM 11 style Bosch
wide
> > band sensor with their EFI systems (I am not sure if they still do).
>
> The sensor looks like Bosch's new dual cell ( like NTK UEGO) sensor, not
> the LSM11. Meter looks nice and I am guessing it costs $3000 or so based
> on the price of the Motec I have that uses the LSM-11.
>
> By the way, the LSM11 in still in use on the Bosch EFI that is on the
> factory GM C5R racecar that I am crew on. We datalog it all the time
> during practice and races and use to tune the a/f.
>
> >
> > The technical specifications are interesting, this is the first meter I
have
> > seen that will read the Bosch and the NGK sensors. It also has an
> > auto-detect feature so it can figure out which sensor it is connected
to.
> > They also refer to using the calibration resister on the wideband
sensors
> > (although they don't specify if this is on the NGK, the Bosch or both).
The
> > technical specifications can be found at:
> >
> Think they both use a cal resistor but do not know for sure. Will ask
> Bosch motorsports engineer at next race.
>
> regards,
>
> frank parker
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:09:49 +1000
> From: Peter Gargano <peter at techedge.com.au>
> Subject: Bosch wide band O2 sensor
>
> Frank F Parker wrote:
> >
> > The sensor looks like Bosch's new dual cell ( like NTK UEGO) sensor, not
> > the LSM11. Meter looks nice and I am guessing it costs $3000 or so based
> > on the price of the Motec I have that uses the LSM-11.
>
> This is the Bosch LSU ..
>
>   http://www.boschusa.com/AutoOrigEquip/Sensors/ProdExhSensors
>
> Anyone got a price?
>
> Peter.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:00:53 -0400
> From: "Julia Wakeling" <tjtbw502 at home.com>
> Subject: Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C130E6.D61694E0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> 210 is a little hot.  But where is it reading 210 at?  In the Radiator, =
> at the head?  At the inlet?
>
> For an all iron block and heads, (assuming you have iron oval ports) 210 =
> won't Kill anything, but you're a little on the hot side for the HP sake =
> of things.  If...... 210 is coming out of the left cylinder head.
>
> Tim Wakeling
> Unleaded Racuing Technologies
>   ----- Original Message -----=20
>   From: James Northrup=20
>   To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
>   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:35 PM
>   Subject: Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice
>
>
>   So my 195 thermostat puts me up to a 210 degree coolant running temp.  =
>
>
>   what is a 1968 396ss made of? what are the stock heads and block =
> metals?  I'm told the rods were a pink alloy, forged 4bolt main crank, =
> and there's no telling what pistons or bearings have been put in.
>
>
>
>   is 210 coolant temp OK?  will I really be asking for trouble if i =
> sustain a particular rpm range above low-load 1000-3000 ?
>
>
>
>
>
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
-=
> - -----
>   Do You Yahoo!?
>   Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! =
> Messenger.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C130E6.D61694E0
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> <HTML><HEAD>
> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
> <STYLE></STYLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>210 is a little hot.&nbsp; But where is =
> it reading=20
> 210 at?&nbsp; In the Radiator, at the head?&nbsp; At the =
> inlet?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For an all iron block and heads, =
> (assuming you have=20
> iron oval ports) 210 won't Kill anything, but you're a little on the hot =
> side=20
> for the HP sake of things.&nbsp; If...... 210 is coming out of the left =
> cylinder=20
> head.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tim Wakeling</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Unleaded Racuing =
> Technologies</FONT></DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>   <DIV=20
>   style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
> black"><B>From:</B>=20
>   <A title=3Djames_northrup at yahoo.com =
> href=3D"mailto:james_northrup at yahoo.com">James=20
>   Northrup</A> </DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
> title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
>   href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> </DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 28, 2001 =
> 11:35=20
>   PM</DIV>
>   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: junkyard 396ss =
> coolant=20
>   advice</DIV>
>   <DIV><BR></DIV>
>   <P>So my 195 thermostat puts me up to a 210 degree coolant running =
> temp.&nbsp;=20
>   </P>
>   <P>what is a 1968 396ss made of? what are the stock heads and block=20
>   metals?&nbsp; I'm told the rods were a pink alloy, forged 4bolt main =
> crank,=20
>   and there's no telling what pistons or bearings have been put in.</P>
>   <P>&nbsp;</P>
>   <P>is 210 coolant temp OK?&nbsp; will I really be asking for trouble =
> if i=20
>   sustain a particular rpm range above low-load 1000-3000 ?</P>
>   <P><BR>
>   <HR SIZE=3D1>
>   <B>Do You Yahoo!?</B><BR>Make <A=20
>   href=3D"http://phonecard.yahoo.com/">international calls</A> for as =
> low as=20
>   $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger.</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C130E6.D61694E0--
>
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the
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> in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo at lists.diy-efi.org
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:04:51 -0400
> From: "Julia Wakeling" <tjtbw502 at home.com>
> Subject: Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice, The answer........
>
> I've seen them come apart too.  But for air flow vs. risk........
>
> I spin mine to 6800 all day long.  With a 4 inch spacer, in between the
> blower belt, run off the alternator.  All it takes is some ballancing.
And
> I've spun them a WHOLE lot higher on small blocks.  80% of the time, if
you
> loose a flex fan, you didn't have something ballanced correctly.  Wether
the
> pulley, the bolts, the fan spacer, whatever.  If it fails, usualy you can
> trace it to a cause.
>
> Tim Wakeling
> Unleaded Racing Technologies
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce" <nacelp at bright.net>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 11:50 PM
> Subject: Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice, The answer........
>
>
> >
> > Just as a cautionary note, I've seen 2 AL fans disassemble themselves,
> just
> > remember they can fail, when working close to them
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> > > Then, run a standard clutch fan, or aluminum flex fan (prefered) off
the
> > > waterpump pulley.  The horsepower loss is negligable.  On a dyno, my
> > engine
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> - --
> > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the
> quotes)
> > in the body of a message (not the subject) to
majordomo at lists.diy-efi.org
> >
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:26:59 +0800 (WST)
> From: Bernd Felsche <bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au>
> Subject: Re: wide band O2 sensor image on Motec web site
>
> Frank F Parker tapped away at the keyboard with:
> > > The image itself is http://www.motec.com/images/plm.jpg
>
> > > say if it is Bosch or NGK). The part number looks like a
> > > shortened/modified Bosch number ( M 0258 002 ). Motec used to
> > > use the LSM 11 style Bosch wide band sensor with their EFI
> > > systems (I am not sure if they still do).
>
> > The sensor looks like Bosch's new dual cell ( like NTK UEGO)
> > sensor, not the LSM11. Meter looks nice and I am guessing it costs
> > $3000 or so based on the price of the Motec I have that uses the
> > LSM-11.
>
> > By the way, the LSM11 in still in use on the Bosch EFI that is on
> > the factory GM C5R racecar that I am crew on. We datalog it all
> > the time during practice and races and use to tune the a/f.
>
> It looks like Bosch is heading towards the NGK/NTK technology
> with their new "LSU" sensors spec'd for GDI (and other) engines.
> http://titus.phy.qub.ac.uk/Oxide_Metal_2001/final_prog.html#Ochs
>
> Somebody in Europe (with sufficiently pointy head) might be
> interested in attending the conference in Lyon, 4-6 October 2001.
>
> - --
> Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:28:20 -0400
> From: "Julia Wakeling" <tjtbw502 at home.com>
> Subject: Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice/welding
>
> You can TIG anything.  The "you can't weld cast iron" myth is just that.
> I've welded enough cast iron in my life to have been able to build my
whole
> house with it.  Now that I mention it.......I DID build my house with it!!
> Preheating helps, the electrodes work, yes.  But in a pinch, you can TIG
> anything, and MIG most things.  Many a big chevy have I tacked back up to
> make a deadline.
>
> Just for fun and games, try this one at home folks.
>
> Take a piece of stainless, a piece of cast iron, a piece of aluminum, and
a
> piece of steel exhaust tube.  Weld emm all together, with the same MIG
> welder, the same wire, without adjusting the gas settings.  You can play
> with wire speed and amps.  It takes me about 4 tries to get them all to go
> together and be able to smack it with a 5 pound ball peen and hold.  It IS
> possible.  Difficult, but possible.  For more fun, try it with flux core
MIG
> wire!!!  Or torches and no braizing rod!!  Just wear a good set of gloves
> and a great helmet.
>
> Playing with metals and getting them to do what physics says can't be done
> is an excellent way to spend a lazy Saturday afternoon.  You learn a lot
> about how different metals interact, and what REALY goes on inside an
> engine.  Or anything that's made of metal for that matter.  Even copper is
> fun to play with.  Try mig welding with copper wire.  Lay down a row of
> pennies, and turn them into a stick.  You realy do get a good idea of how
> the metal reacts to heat, and knowing that lets you get an idea on how
heat
> in an electrical system works both for and against you.  It realy is fun
to
> play with, and you get a new respect for the metals we all take for
granted.
> You realy would be amazed at what you can do with refined dirt.
>
> Happy playing!!
>
> Tim Wakeling
> Unleaded Racing Technologies
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Warwick Anderson" <warwick at musclecarshootout.com>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 10:56 PM
> Subject: Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice/welding
>
>
> > you can even buy electrodes now that will let you weld cast with out pre
> > heating. though when I used them they were very hard to get a good
> > penetration in the weld.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Hunt" <bamainc at home.com>
> > To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice
> >
> >
> > > Before you welders say that ain't possible,  the technique is to
preheat
> > the
> > > cast metal to about 800 degrees and it will weld!  You CAN repair cast
> > iron
> > > blocks, heads and other deivces.  It is possible (I don't know) that
> > Smokey
> > > created the process.
> > >
> > > dh
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Barry Tisdale" <btisdale at cybersol.com>
> > > To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 5:33 PM
> > > Subject: Re: junkyard 396ss coolant advice
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ol' Smokey Yunick built some engines & heads w/ this in mind.  He'd
> saw
> > > the
> > > > block/head apart, fit copper tubes inside to direct the water where
> > > needed,
> > > > weld it back together & refinish it in 'raw cast iron' look to hide
> the
> > > > welds.  Now that is going to a *lot* of trouble, but it worked very
> > well.
> > > >
> > > > Barry
> > > >
> > > > At 03:50 PM 8/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
> > > > >The coolant is exposed to temps in the range of 500dF around the
> > exhuast
> > > > >valve seat / guide areas (SBC, at about 1 HP/CID).  It is real easy
> to
> > > flash
> > > > >the coolant into steam in those areas.
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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