Reasonably priced at 2 million dollars??

[Shannen Durphey]

Lance wrote:
> 
> So the idea is a car available from an aftermarket tuner?  You guys
> don't read much about imports.  There's an entire site devoted to late
> model Toyota Supras that all make 650+ hp from 3 liters www.to4r.com and
> most of these guys are using completely stock internals.  

Locally there's a 630hp twin turbo Nissan, a 450 hp Mazda Rotary, some others in
the 400+hp range.  I know what it takes to build those cars, I've seen all too
well how they behave.  A regional shop that specializes in building high hp
imports regularly utilizes our dyno to do their tuning.  

<snip>
> Toyota 
<more snipped> 
> GN
<yet more snipped> 
>  All for a lot less than either of the cars you linked to.

There were a few qualifications that led to the links.  The cars had to be
streetable and capable of 240 mile per hour speeds.  Bernd further reduced the
allowable competition by adding items such as leather seats, air conditioning,
emissions compliance, crash worthiness compliance, and a slew of other "gotchas"
to the list.  

> 
> And as amazing as it sounds, a Toyota Supra pulled 0.98g in C&D, Motor
> Trend, and R&T, absolutely bone stock in 1993.  Motor Trend proclaimed
> this same car "the best stopping car we have tested in the last 30
> years" after repeated 60-0 stops in 116 ft.  

I think there were more than a few people who read that article way back then. 
Street car braking systems have recieved much more attention in the 8 years
since that date than in ten years prior to it.  Many of today's "fast" cars have
much more capable brakes than their performance counterparts of ten years ago.  
  
> It also bested the ZR-1
> according to the same magazines in 1993, a car that cost 50% more.  
There's a few funny stories about cars that bested the ZR1 in various ways. 
I've heard a fairly credible story that the LT1 had to be de-tuned for 1992
production so it wouldn't make more power than the ZR1.  For a while, the ZR1
was the car that others were compared to.

> The
> late model Supra was the benchmark for C-5 development, and even has
> received top honors for reliability in the premium sports car class.
Auto design is competetive, and somebody always gets to spend some time in the
limelight.  Toyota should be commended for their achievements.  Chevy should be
flogged, however.  The C5 'vette is a great improvement over the C4.  But the C3
was only somewhat remarkable when it was introduced in '64, and by the time the
chassis was redesigned almost 20 years later, you could buy much better cars for
a whole lot less money.

> Enough chest pounding.
LOL!!!  I know the Blue Oval guys get up-in-arms when ya poke 'em.  Who knew I'd
find someone from the import crowd like that. ; ) 

> 
> Suffice it to say, if you are going to start talking about "tuned" cars
> regardless of the developer, you are comparing apples and oranges.
> That's no different than saying the Bugatti, Porsche GT-1, or Mercedes
> CLK are not reasonably priced for the average human.

I actually started out talking about ex racecars.  They are "streetable and
capable of speeds close to 400 km/hr."   But Bernd would have none of that.

And you certainly didn't miss the point.  This sidelined conversation began with
a comparison between apples and oranges.  I just threw a less expensive orange
into the basket.

>  I sure wouldn't
> spend almost $50k in modifications after coughing up the requisite
> $40somethingK for the base car.  

Agreed.  But getting 240 mph out of a streetable car is a little more expensive
than a pair of HKS turbos, 6 new injectors, and a 200 hp shot of nitrous.

> I'd have been a lot more agreeable had
> you said the Z-06 Corvette, 
There are a lot of cars that are more reasonably priced than the car in the link
I posted.  The Z06 and the 1993 Toyota both fail to meet the "240 mph capable"
qualification in stock form.  If you know of anyone closer to the grass roots
level that has a streetable car that has reached speeds of 200 mph, I love
reading about 'em. 

Shannen

> despite some quality problems, it is an
> exceptionally capable automobile that is certainly reasonably
> affordable, and meets all the other requirements of a fully DOT and EPA
> compliant street vehicle.  Stock for stock, I don't think there is
> anything out there that is as capable at a reasonable price.  As in all
> cases, YMMV.
> 
> Lance
>
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