Honda Direct Fire Coils

James Ballenger vtjballeng at yifan.net
Fri Feb 23 01:34:12 GMT 2001


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There is nocam sensor, there is a crank sensor but this does not tell you
when #1 is on combustion vs intake... my conclusion being that these coils
are run in waste spark mode from 99-00' and run in sequential mode when the
F4i (fuel injected) came out in 01' and will be sequential in the future...
what a waste of coil on plug If my hypothesis is correct.

James
  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
Behalf Of Bob Wooten
  Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 2:57 AM
  To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
  Subject: RE: Honda Direct Fire Coils


  The cool factor VERY high indeed.  I am thinking that there has to be some
kind of sensor to tell the CPU what plug to fire.  maybe off of the
alternator?

  BW
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: James Ballenger
    To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
    Sent: 2/21/01 10:35:43 PM
    Subject: RE: Honda Direct Fire Coils


        Honda did something similar on some new bike engines and these rev
to 14,100 rpm.  The problem I ran into with my Haltech E6S is that I only
had two outputs to control ignition which would be very inefficient with
these coils because two would fully fire at each tdc and could cause
problems.  If you have 4 dedicated outputs and have a cam sensor you can run
them but they are expensive and by design less powerful than the large coils
of units outside the head.  The cool factor is extremely high though ;-)  I
just realized though that the 99' F4 runs coil per plug and they have no cam
sensor... hmmm.

    http://planeta.clix.pt/cbr600f4/pics/600f4-12.jpg
    http://planeta.clix.pt/cbr600f4/pics/600f4-25.jpg

    James Ballenger
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
Behalf Of Chris Capowski
      Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:14 PM
      To: DIY_EFI
      Subject: Honda Direct Fire Coils


      All this talk of wasted spark coil packs got me thinking.  I am
thinking of trying to use Honda direct fire coils from an S2000 on my race
car (Honda 4 cyl, 10,000 RPM)  They look like a long (6") spark plug boot
(if anyone hasn't seen them) and sit directly on the spark plug.  They also
have a built in ignitor.  The only terminals they have is +,-, trigger and
of course the connection to the plug.  No idea what kind of trigger input it
is looking for, the service manual has absolutely nothing.  I need to figure
out if I can fire this with a Haltech IG6.

      Anybody have any info on these types of coils?  I would really like to
be able to use them as having no plug wires means there is four less cheap
parts that can break and end a race (same reason why you wont find a single
fuse in the car, and before someone asks, yes, that includes any computer
fuses)

      Chris "Mighty Mouse" Capowski


  --- Bob Wooten
  --- r71chevy at earthlink.net
  --- www.r71camaro.homestead.com



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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D936100101-23022001>There=20
is nocam sensor, there is a crank sensor but this does not tell you when =
#1 is=20
on combustion vs intake... my conclusion being that these coils are run =
in waste=20
spark mode from 99-00' and run in sequential mode when the F4i (fuel =
injected)=20
came out in 01' and will be sequential in the future... what a waste of =
coil on=20
plug If my hypothesis is correct.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D936100101-23022001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D936100101-23022001>James</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
  [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Bob=20
  Wooten<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 22, 2001 2:57 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  diy_efi at diy-efi.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Honda Direct Fire=20
  Coils<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV>The cool factor VERY high indeed.&nbsp; I am thinking that there =
has to=20
  be some kind of sensor to tell the CPU what plug to fire.&nbsp; maybe =
off of=20
  the alternator?</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>BW</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A href=3D"mailto:vtjballeng at yifan.net" =
title=3Dvtjballeng at yifan.net>James=20
    Ballenger</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A=20
    href=3D"mailto:vtjballeng at yifan.net"=20
    title=3Dvtjballeng at yifan.net>diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 2/21/01 10:35:43 PM =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Honda Direct =
Fire=20
    Coils</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=3D2>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D495431006-22022001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Honda did something =
similar on=20
    some new bike engines and these rev to 14,100 rpm.&nbsp; The problem =
I ran=20
    into with my Haltech E6S is that I only had two outputs to control =
ignition=20
    which would be very inefficient with these coils because two would =
fully=20
    fire at each tdc and could cause problems.&nbsp; If you have 4 =
dedicated=20
    outputs and have a cam sensor you can run them but they are =
expensive and by=20
    design less powerful than the large coils of units outside the =
head.&nbsp;=20
    The cool factor is extremely high though ;-)&nbsp; I just realized =
though=20
    that the 99' F4 runs coil per plug and they have no cam sensor...=20
    hmmm.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D495431006-22022001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D495431006-22022001><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://planeta.clix.pt/cbr600f4/pics/600f4-12.jpg">http://planeta=
.clix.pt/cbr600f4/pics/600f4-12.jpg</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D495431006-22022001><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://planeta.clix.pt/cbr600f4/pics/600f4-25.jpg">http://planeta=
.clix.pt/cbr600f4/pics/600f4-25.jpg</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D495431006-22022001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D495431006-22022001>James Ballenger</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
      <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
      owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]<B>On =
Behalf=20
      Of </B>Chris Capowski<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 21, 2001 =
10:14=20
      PM<BR><B>To:</B> DIY_EFI<BR><B>Subject:</B> Honda Direct Fire=20
      Coils<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All this talk of wasted spark =
coil packs got=20
      me thinking.&nbsp; I am thinking of trying to use Honda direct =
fire coils=20
      from an S2000&nbsp;on my race car (Honda 4 cyl, 10,000 RPM)&nbsp; =
They=20
      look like a long (6") spark plug boot (if anyone hasn't seen them) =
and sit=20
      directly on the spark plug.&nbsp; They also have a built in =
ignitor.&nbsp;=20
      The only terminals they have is +,-, trigger and of course the =
connection=20
      to the plug.&nbsp; No idea what kind of trigger input it is =
looking for,=20
      the service manual has absolutely nothing.&nbsp; I need to figure =
out if I=20
      can fire this with a Haltech IG6.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anybody have any info on these =
types of=20
      coils?&nbsp; I would really like to be able to use them =
as&nbsp;having no=20
      plug wires means there is four less cheap parts that can break and =
end a=20
      race&nbsp;(same reason why you wont find a single fuse in the car, =
and=20
      before someone asks, yes, that includes any computer =
fuses)</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris "Mighty Mouse"=20
    Capowski</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT>
    <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>--- Bob Wooten</DIV>
  <DIV>--- <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:r71chevy at earthlink.net">r71chevy at earthlink.net</A></DIV>
  <DIV>--- <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.r71camaro.homestead.com">www.r71camaro.homestead.com</=
A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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