DIY_EFI Digest V5 #515
DIY_EFI Digest
DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner at diy-efi.org
Sat Mar 10 16:43:19 GMT 2001
DIY_EFI Digest Friday, March 2 2001 Volume 05 : Number 515
In this issue:
Re: CDI systems info wanted
Re: CDI systems info wanted
Re: CDI systems info wanted
Re: CDI systems info wanted
Re: CDI systems info wanted
Electromotive software
Re: Electromotive software
Re: Electromotive software
Re: Igniters => DIS
Re: Electromotive software
Re: DIY- UEGO
Mitsubishi EFI
promedit
Re: new Honda NTK sensor price
CNP coils
Re: DIY- UEGO
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Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:13:32 +0100
From: Arnaud Westenberg <arnaud at casema.net>
Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted
Carter Shore wrote:
>
> Arnaud,
>
> There are some schematics of older CDI boxes out
> there, that utilize only a couple of transistors, and
> no IC's to produce a simple and reliable CDI function.
> The simplicity of these systems allows easy analysis
> of the the fundamental CDI operation. Attaching a
> scope (with suitable HV probe) while operating is very
> revealing.
Do you have any pointers to those schematics so I can study a bit more?
The simplicity of the schematics would really get me started :-)
> I'm not quite sure what advantage you seek by
> eliminating the capacitor. It's an integral part of
> the system's operation.
My idea was instead of discharging a capacitor into the primary of the
coil, directly feeding the primary of the coil with an HV AC power
supply. This would eliminate the ringing of the capacitor/coil combo and
spark duration would be as long as one feeds the coil from the power
supply. It's just an idea of a Mechanical engineer and I don't know if
it can be realized due to the power requirements, maybe the power supply
would be huge.
> A single high voltage (400-600 V) power inverter can
> easily supply enough energy to run several different
> capacitor/SCR/coil sets, one for each spark plug. This
> gives the simplicity and economy of a single HV power
> stage, with the flexibility and fine control of
> individual distributorless triggering.
I see, but where do I look for information about how these power
inverters operate and their construction? Would it be possible to build
such a circuit wich directly powers the primary of the coil instead of
charging a capacitor?
Thanks again,
Arnaud
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:13:47 +0100
From: Arnaud Westenberg <arnaud at casema.net>
Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted
Warwick Anderson wrote:
>
> Iv got a good modern CDI/MSD which Im building slowly, I mean to scan the
> plans for any who wants em...
I would really appreciate that!
> this unit can multi spark or be slightly changed to only spark twice per
> firing.
> In the plans it, it states it can handle 15,000 RPM for a V8.
Indeed, this sounds like a rather sophisticated system. I'm getting
really interested in your project!
> for a basic CDI plan look at this link
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm
> this one has one better thing than mine, it uses an off the shelf
> transformer, where as mine you have to wind your own. something which im
> still stuck on....
Thanks for the link, I'm going to study this system thoroughly. Maybe it
does have an of the shelf transformer but it also says it's limited to
10Hz spark rate. As for the transformer, my luck is that I have an oncle
who produces them for a living so I should be able to work that part out
with him :-)) I still want to do everything myself, as much as I can,
but you'll probably understand that or you wouldn't be on a DIY list :-)
Arnaud
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:13:39 +0100
From: Arnaud Westenberg <arnaud at casema.net>
Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted
chetwagner at qwest.net wrote:
>
> I have a couple of books with schematics of some older CDI systems.
> I could hook my scanner back up and scan them so they can be put on incoming.
> Let me know so I know if I have to fight with the internal scanner
> card.
Yes please fight that card :-) I really appreciate the information from
you guys.
> You could make a high voltage/frequency supply using a
> frequency circuit and an ignition coil. I have made these before for
> my high voltage projects, so I know that these can produce some
> substantial sparks with the proper parts.
Could you please elaborate a bit more on the power supply? What do you
mean by frequency circuit, is that the subsystem driving the primary
side of the transformer?
Thanks,
Arnaud
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:13:41 +0100
From: Arnaud Westenberg <arnaud at casema.net>
Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted
Jurgen Hartwig wrote:
>
> I don't know jack about the inner workings of CDI, but there is an article
> about the MSD-6A ignition box on the ftp site:
>
> ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/diy_efi/documents/msd6a_02.pdf
Thanks for the link. I'll have to study a lot more before I can make
some sense of the schematics though.
Greetings Arnaud
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:13:52 +0100
From: Arnaud Westenberg <arnaud at casema.net>
Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted
Stephen Burgess wrote:
>
> With my limited electronic knowledge I attempted to peek inside one of those
> mysterious black boxes.....Friggin thing is so complicated it probably could
> control a lot more than just a couple of coils charging....
Hmm, lets hope these systems don't necessarily have to be complecated
because I'm no EE either, but hey, I'm willing to learn :-))
> What machine are you working on??? maybee your chip swap would work for my
> purposes?
I'm riding a Suzuki gsx 1100 '81. Although the transistor could be seen
as a chip, it's not the ECU chip swap kind of thing, it's just a
replacement for the older points systems. I don't know what you're
looking for though.
Arnaud
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:10:12 -0700
From: "Programmer" <nwester at eidnet.org>
Subject: Electromotive software
Hey guys,
Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod
using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very cool...Looks like a
very tuneable system.
Lyndon.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 12:21:47 -0600
From: Gabe <gellett at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Electromotive software
I have an Electromotive system in my Vette.... I've been looking at their
windows based software, but haven't purchased it yet (still running the DOS
based super*blend software). I feel it's immensely easier to tune than my TPI
1227165 system on my truck, although not nearly as sophisticated.
Gabe
Programmer wrote:
> Hey guys,
> Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod
> using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very cool...Looks like a
> very tuneable system.
>
> Lyndon.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:04:32 -0700
From: "Programmer" <nwester at eidnet.org>
Subject: Re: Electromotive software
What kind of $$$ did you end up spending ?
Lyndon.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Gabe <gellett at earthlink.net>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Electromotive software
> I have an Electromotive system in my Vette.... I've been looking at their
> windows based software, but haven't purchased it yet (still running the
DOS
> based super*blend software). I feel it's immensely easier to tune than my
TPI
> 1227165 system on my truck, although not nearly as sophisticated.
>
> Gabe
>
> Programmer wrote:
>
> > Hey guys,
> > Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod
> > using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very cool...Looks like a
> > very tuneable system.
> >
> > Lyndon.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:13:43 -0600
From: "Jurgen Hartwig" <jhartwig at midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Igniters => DIS
> They are already going on 2001 trucks too. I found them on a 00'
suburban
> 5.3L engine. GM part # 10457730. I still wonder if these have dwell
> control however, because this could still be controlled at the PCM. How
> were you able to verify that they do have dwell control?
>
James, I do not have any proof they have dwell control, other than that
which was posted by Garfield. In both posts, he plainly stated they
control dwell within and require a TTL level input. If someone with more
capacity than I is willing to test a coil, take some pictures, and do a
writeup, I will pay for a single Smartcoil/CNP.
Waiting to hear back from the local dealer regarding the CNP. Will post
with results.
Jay
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 13:20:30 -0600
From: Gabe <gellett at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Electromotive software
Well.... That was 4 years ago, before I knew what could be done with a
GMECM.....
I got everything for a SBC - manifold, 27 lb/hr injectors, 4bbl 1,000 cfm
airdoors, all sensors, high volume - high pressure fuel pump, software, all the
tech support I wanted, etc.... Ended up having about $2,700 in it in the end.
Could have done it much cheaper if I had the knowledge I have now. Live &
learn.....
If you go that route, just get their ECM/software and do the rest yourself, save
lots of $$$.
Gabe
Programmer wrote:
> What kind of $$$ did you end up spending ?
>
> Lyndon.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gabe <gellett at earthlink.net>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Electromotive software
>
> > I have an Electromotive system in my Vette.... I've been looking at their
> > windows based software, but haven't purchased it yet (still running the
> DOS
> > based super*blend software). I feel it's immensely easier to tune than my
> TPI
> > 1227165 system on my truck, although not nearly as sophisticated.
> >
> > Gabe
> >
> > Programmer wrote:
> >
> > > Hey guys,
> > > Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod
> > > using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very cool...Looks like a
> > > very tuneable system.
> > >
> > > Lyndon.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> quotes)
> > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo at lists.diy-efi.org
> >
>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 17:26:30 -0500
From: rr <RRauscher at nni.com>
Subject: Re: DIY- UEGO
Oh, I don't think I'd call it crude. Maybe still a prototype, but not crude. I am
thankful that someone took the time to put something together.
BobR.
Chad Clendening wrote:
> Everything in the "CRUDE wide ratio O2 model is an approximation of how the UEGO appears to
> work.
>
> Chad
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:30:31 -0800
From: Peter Teulings <pteuling at amis.com>
Subject: Mitsubishi EFI
Dear Mark,
I found your website when looking for information about the diagnostics
port of my Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4. I want to build a proprietary
datalogger/scantool for my Psion computer and am looking for the protocol
of the diagnostics port of the EFI.
Do you know where I would be able to get such information?
Thank in advance for your help.
Sincerely yours,
Peter Teulings
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 21:37:26 -0500
From: Chris Abreu <cra98001 at uconnvm.uconn.edu>
Subject: promedit
Can somebody please tell me how to change the values using promedit. Im
sorry to waste everyone's time with what seems to be a stupid
question. Ive been playing with the program for a while and can't figure
out how to change the values.
thanks
chris
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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 21:50:49 -0500
From: "Chris Capowski" <c.capowski at home.com>
Subject: Re: new Honda NTK sensor price
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason R. Haines" <jhaines at lingenfelter.com>
> I thought some people might be interested to know that I called my local
> Honda dealer to get a price and availability quote on the Honda NTK
sensor.
> The price has gone up even higher. They quoted me a list price of $296.85.
> Jason
I am safe to assume that this is a 'merican price? The Canadian Honda list
price for the 36531-P07-003 is $213.57, which I wholesale for $181.53 Cdn.
That works out to about $120 US. Just start ordering them from a Canadian
dealer. These price differences are quite common in fact and go either way.
If you are looking for a Honda part and the price seems out of wack, try
across the border. Oh yah, I also checked availability and Honda Can has
about 40 of these in stock.
Chris "Mighty Mouse" Capowski
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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:02:10 -0800
From: "Bob Wooten" <r71chevy at earthlink.net>
Subject: CNP coils
I just got my hand on a CNP coil assy (the entire side off of a car, 4
coils, bracket, harness). I was pinning it out & have a few questions. I
was hoping that the next time that someone gets one of these in their shop
that they can take a voltage reading for me. this is came off an LS1 donor
motor for a 70-something Vette retrofit, so I don't have a car to plug it up
to. there are 4 wires per coil (plus the HV)
pin 1 is a common to all the coils (the top)
Pin 2 is the trigger signal (the next one down)
Pin 3 is common to all the coils
Pin 4 is common to all the coils (the bottom)
from what Gar said, one of the commons is hot (+vcc), one is ground, & the
last is the common ground for all the trigger signals. what I was hoping
was that someone could take a few voltage readings & let me know what is
what. or if someone has a print, that would do as well.
I took some resistance readings & it is not readily clear what goes to what.
the only thing that is obvious is that from pins 1 - 4 there is a diode
across it as I was able to measure the biasing voltage (.518 V) with the
meter.
this one came off of a 99 Camaro. there was also a 98 TA (the tag on the
car reads "600hp TA", believe it, I saw the dyno sheet, blower & squeeze)
there that had the exact same setup. the part number on the coils (all 16)
was 12558948 (top line, p/n?), 09T29-0200 (bottom line, Date code?)
Thanks for the help
Bob Wooten
r71chevy at earthlink.net
www.r71camaro.homestead.com
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Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 22:16:38 -0500
From: Barry Tisdale <btisdale at cybersol.com>
Subject: Re: DIY- UEGO
My hearty thanks also, Chad - good job!!
Barry
At 05:26 PM 03/01/2001 -0500, rr wrote:
>
>Oh, I don't think I'd call it crude. Maybe still a prototype, but not
crude. I am
>thankful that someone took the time to put something together.
>
>BobR.
>
>Chad Clendening wrote:
>
>> Everything in the "CRUDE wide ratio O2 model is an approximation of how
the UEGO appears to
>> work.
>>
>> Chad
>>
>>
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>
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End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #515
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