A little WB history

[Diehl, Jeffrey]

Bruce,

I appreciated your little history lesson here. 

However, I've appreciated even more being able to ask people, (particulary
you) questions which will help me make my car more fun.

There have been times when I thought your replies were a bit short, but that
is colored by my desire to get as much information as I can...

It is sad that things have happened as they did, but you have to consider a
few things.

1.  There is a lot of $$$ to be had in the EFI business.  Many OEM systems
are primitive at best.  Lots of people spend $1000+ to improve this for
their car.

2.  There are lots of wanna-be's out there.  Lots of people want to say that
they have a custom "insert your favorite mod here," but don't have the skill
to really do it.

That said, I hope you don't get jadded over it.  Remember, there are also
lots of people like me who don't mind asking dumb questions and learning.  I
started out on this list asking some pretty dumb sounding questions.  Now, I
only ask "unusual" questions and I have read "The Internal Combustion Engine
in Theory and Practice Vol 1" (Taylor).  

So, some people really do learn from this list...

Just my $.02.

Mike Diehl.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Sent: 9/30/2000 1:20 PM
Subject: A little WB history



For the new guys, and those that seem to have forgotten some facts about
the
WB, Profits, and *list work*, here's a brief summary.

The WB goes back to Hotrods @ Dixie.com, and the first weeks of the DIY
list.   People had mentioned bit and pieces of how to do it several
times,
and the postings were just getting to be repeats of past info..   3 or
so
years ago, I proposed we (the list) get organized and build a DIY WB.
Lined up some guys to design it, PCB layout, researchers, etc.  While
mostly
on list there was a ton of off list mail.   Gar desided to coin the
phrase
EGOR, to make the work easy to find in the archives (later the story was
changed, and he wants to keep the term as intell product or some such
thing).   About that time work was also advancing on another project
IGOR,
again a phrase coined by Gar.   After a bunch of community time was
invested
in it, one of the members said, well, if I want to build and sell a few
kits, I will, and no one will stop me.  Well, after he refused to
reconsider, Gar., said fine, I'll take the info I have, and develope my
own
commercial product.  Then there was a flame war about IGOR, and Gar left
semi permanently.   Rather then go thru the list nonsense again, I
rounded
up a few guys and we continued the WB project off list.   We got to
where we
had what seemed to be enough info., and we just needed EEs to try to get
a
few sensors to actually work.   I bought a few sensors, and gave them
out
for the EEs to play with.   All but Chad, dropped out.  He continued for
over a year to work on finding out exactly what made it work.  Over a
Year.
Others of us really had done what we could, and basically just gave what
support we could to him.  All the while, we just considered that we were
just furfilling our commitments of of just doing what we said we would
do.
Just being true to our word.   There were 2 goals, one to make it as
easy as
possible for the average guy to assemble, it was to be free, and by free
no
one was to capitialize on the work of others.   A little over a year
ago, we
released the first WB diagrams, with about the same users agreement.
There
were only a few made, since no one would step forward and do the PCB
layout.
So it just sat there.   Then at one of the POWWOWs Bob, saw it, and
followed
up on developing it, he spend oddles of time refining Chads work, and
this
time got is much simplier, and a PCB was made.   Bob, had seen the
original
Users Agreement, and after weighting things, developed and shared what
he
found.   If it was not for the non profit end of the WB, we still
wouldn't
have one, It's Just That Simple.

Gar got real mad at me, and threatened litigation, over the WB.  He
thought
in some sense that I had to confer with him, about the on going WB
efforts,
and was real upset when I released the first WB info..  Then someone
innocently enough mentioned EGOR and Gar wrote me to again threaten me
(and
the list).  Rather then play any of his games, I started calling the
project
DIY WB, and asked others to do the same.

On a similiar note, a new guy shows up (at about the same time) saying
he
wants to write an editor for his PCM.  Hangs around until he has a Beta
Version tested, and then walks away to cash in on what he found from the
list and from off list information.  One of his biggest contributors,
also,
said the heck with the list, if that's the type folks hang out here.

It's the User's Agreement, that allowed the WB to get developed.  It's
just
necessary so that guys don't feel taken advantage of when they pour
YEARS of
work into a project.

You don't like the Agreement, fine, be a man and just walk away from the
WB.
Don't whine about it when it is what allowed the project to be
developed.

If you want a WB and don't want to follow the Users Agreement, design
you
own,  if your not an EE, get a price from one for the R+D and see what a
gift this one is.

Two other minor items.  At one point my meds., did make me grumpy, and I
used that as a nickname, just to let folks know that I wasn't feeling
good.
While easy to take the attitude that I have an attitude, I'm sorry to
disappoint you but I have little ego, and just happen to be a man of few
words, generally.   Life well be way to brief for me and I haven't time
to
be mad at anyone.   If you look close in my writtings I generally leave
the
reader in better shape after the conversation then before.  If I have to
rattle a cage to get someone to rethink something then I will, do I do
it to
be mean?, never.   The favorite mis quote is a comment I made that if a
guy
was interested in EFI then he really should learn how to solder.   Some
call
that belittling, well to me it was motivating, and as a matter of fact
the
individual concerned said he would give it a try.   I even offered to
replace the PCB if he did mess it up, but he coped a little attitude
saving
he wasn't out looking for charity.   So I was damned by both, but the
guy
might learn some soldering skills, and if he does, or tries, he still
learned something, which is what my primary goal is with the WB.   I
will
call a liar if you're a liar, and if you want to break you word, or
agreeements, well, again, I'll call you on it.   Underminding the years
of
work in the WB I resent.

I hope, this explains things,
Bruce


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