[Diy_efi] False knock?

Thu Nov 7 18:36:37 GMT 2002

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>Any way you can take the knock sensor out of the equation?  Somehow =
tell the computer no knocking is >happening and see if you still get the =
power loss?

I could unplug the knock sensors, but I really don't want to do that :) =
If your implying that the loss of timing is part of the ECU's timing =
maps, I'm 99% sure its not.

>Maybe your car really likes a rich mixture?  Try going even richer and =
see if you loose power too.  Maybe >you're really right at the optimum =
with 10.7 A/F?

Actually it traps best on a 10.5:1 a/f. All other Supras I've heard of =
pick up power when leaned out until about 12.5:1 or so, especially on a =
short dyno pull.

=20

Another question, does it only pull spark with the leaner mixture?

Yes.

I think I now know how to look at my knock sensor inputs and actually =
know whats going on, as soon as I get a decent digital scope I'll know =
for sure if its electronic or not... If not, people tell me that my =
block might be decked too high.... Anyone know if you could see =
something like that with a boroscope? From what I understand the piston =
should be completely flat with the top of the HG at TDC right?

As far as compression gauges go, another Supra (w/o this problem) tested =
160-170 on the same gauge, and his car has 90k miles, and has seen more =
detonation.

Grant

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: A6intruder=20
  To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
  Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:32 AM
  Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] False knock?

  Grant,

  =20

  Any way you can take the knock sensor out of the equation?  Somehow =
tell the computer no knocking is happening and see if you still get the =
power loss?

  =20

  Maybe your car really likes a rich mixture?  Try going even richer and =
see if you loose power too.  Maybe you're really right at the optimum =
with 10.7 A/F?

  =20

  Another question, does it only pull spark with the leaner mixture?

  =20

  Good luck.

  =20

  Daniel R. Nicoson

  Equipment Exchange Company

  Phone:  (814) 774-0888

  Fax:      (814) 774-0880

  =20

  -----Original Message-----
  From: diy_efi-admin at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-admin at diy-efi.org]On =
Behalf Of Grant Beaty
  Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:12 PM
  To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
  Subject: [Diy_efi] False knock?

  =20

  I re-did the repair manuals knock sensors tests and both check out ok, =
.123ms period at 4k RPMs. Timing advance still plummets when the car is =
leaned out past 10.8:1 or so, at boost levels from 14 to 19 psi. This =
has been verified by 3 different wideband O2s. The car's compression is =
perfect, 172-175 across the board, no visible blow-by anyways, and it =
burns no oil. The car actually lost power going from 10.7 to 12.0 a/f on =
the dyno, 450 rwhp to 445 (although it picked up some torque before it =
pulled ~4 degrees of timing). All other Supras I've heard of pick up =
some power when leaned out, even on pump gas, and even past 12.5:1, as =
long as its only for one dyno pull.

  =20

  Does anyone have any experience with false knock associated with a/f =
ratios? Is it possible that my car simply makes more knock-noise than =
others? Unfortunately I don't have access to other Supras to experiment =
on w/ a digital scope. It doesn't seem likely that the ECU would pick up =
false knock only when the car is leaned out, but given that the =
compression is so good (59k miles of HARD driving, lots of long highway =
pulls, and quite a few road course miles too) thats the only thing I can =
think of. A plug chop on the dyno revealed no noticable cylinder =
imbalance. Coolant temps make no difference, even as low as 160F.

  =20

  A few people have told me the squish area or the quality of valve seat =
installation could have a large effect on knock threashold. However, =
given that I have good compression and the plugs have never showed signs =
of det (even when it pulls 8 degrees of timing), it doesn't seem likely =
to me. I'm all out of things to try though, except for trying another =
ECU which should be coming in the mail.

  =20

  Thanks for any help,

  Grant Beaty

  '97 T66 Supra TT 6-speed

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Grant Beaty <gbeaty at ufl.edu>
  To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
  Date: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Knock sensor Q

  I just measured the 1st knock sensor's frequency with my =
ghetto-o-scope ( http://polly.phys.msu.su/~zeld/oscill.html ), and it =
appeared to have a period of about .08ms at 4k RPMs, whereas the repair =
manual states it should have a frequency of .123ms. Does anyone know if =
this is a signifant difference? (I know there is virtually no chance of =
anyone have any idea, but hey, it worth a try since sensors are $130 a =
pop).

  =20

  Thanks for any help?

  Grant

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Grant Beaty <gbeaty at ufl.edu>
  To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
  Date: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Knock sensor Q

  It read the same as another FJO they had at the dyno, and the same as =
a friend's FJO, and the same as another friend's FJO, etc.

  =20

  Grant

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Justin Starkey @ VMP <justinv6 at bellsouth.net>
  To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
  Date: Monday, October 28, 2002 12:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Knock sensor Q

  I can't help you with the Knock sensor.  How accurate was yor FJO WB? =
I haven't had a chance to test mine against any others.

  Justin Starkey
  www.VelocityMustangPerformance.com
  **Quote Original E-Mail In Reply**

  ----- Original Message -----=20

  From: Grant Beaty=20

  To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20

  Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 11:22 PM

  Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock sensor Q

  =20

  Has anyone ever seen a knock sensor, or even a ECU, go bad & trigger =
knock sooner than others?

  =20

  My car actually makes peak power with an a/f of about 10.5:1 on pump =
gas. It doesn't matter if the boost is 15 or 19, it just pulls too much =
timing. Leaning out from mid-high 10s to 12.0: lost 5rwhp, and its even =
worse in the 1/4 mi, where it at WOT longer (2-3 mph would be lost with =
a similar tuning change).

  =20

  I've done a plug chop on the dyno, and it didn't show any cylinder =
imbalance. Compression is 172-175 in all cylinders. My FJO WB has been =
verified against others. Carbon build up isn't possible with my driving =
style. So the only thing left to check is the electronics, and new knock =
sensors aren't cheap, so I'm asking here first.

  =20

  Thanks for any help,

  Grant Beaty

  '97 Toyota Supra T66 6-speed

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<DIV><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&gt;Any way you can take the =
knock sensor=20
out of the equation?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</SPAN>Somehow tell=20
the computer no knocking is &gt;happening and see if you still get the =
power=20
loss?</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I could unplug the knock =
sensors, but I=20
really don't want to do that :) If your implying that the loss of timing =
is part=20
of the ECU's timing maps, I'm 99% sure its =
not.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&gt;Maybe your car =
really likes=20
a rich mixture?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Try going =
even=20
richer and see if you loose power too.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;=20
</SPAN>Maybe &gt;you=92re really right at the optimum with 10.7=20
A/F?</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000>Actually it traps best =
on a 10.5:1=20
a/f. All other Supras I've heard of pick up power when leaned out until =
about=20
12.5:1 or so, especially on a short dyno=20
pull.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Another question, =
does it only=20
pull spark with the leaner mixture?</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
color=3D#000000>Yes.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I think I now know how to look at =
my knock=20
sensor inputs and actually know whats going on, as soon as I get a =
decent=20
digital scope I'll know for sure if its electronic or not... If not, =
people tell=20
me that my block might be decked too high.... Anyone know if you could =
see=20
something like that with a boroscope? From what I understand the piston =
should=20
be completely flat with the top of the HG at TDC =
right?</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>As far as compression gauges go, =
another Supra=20
(w/o this problem) tested 160-170 on the same gauge, and his car has 90k =
miles,=20
and has seen more detonation.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
color=3D#000000></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
color=3D#000000>Grant<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P><o=
:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DA6intruder at adelphia.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:A6intruder at adelphia.net">A6intruder</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 06, =
2002 8:32=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Diy_efi] False =
knock?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Grant,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Any way you can =
take the knock=20
  sensor out of the equation?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN>Somehow tell the computer no knocking is happening and see if =
you still=20
  get the power loss?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Maybe your car =
really likes a=20
  rich mixture?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Try going =
even=20
  richer and see if you loose power too.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN>Maybe you=92re really right at the optimum with 10.7=20
  A/F?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Another =
question, does it only=20
  pull spark with the leaner =
mixture?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Good=20
  luck.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoAutoSig><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle17><font=20
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></font></span><![endif]--><F=
ONT=20
  color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy">Daniel R. =
Nicoson</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoAutoSig><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Equipment Exchange=20
  Company</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Phone:<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>(814) =
774-0888</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: navy; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy">Fax:<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</SPAN>(814)=20
  774-0880</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
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windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
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  color=3Dnavy><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
  diy_efi-admin at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-admin at diy-efi.org]<B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Grant =
Beaty<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, November 05, =
2002 9:12=20
  PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
  diy_efi at diy-efi.org<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>=20
  [Diy_efi] False knock?</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">I =
re-did the=20
  repair manuals knock sensors tests and both check out ok, .123ms =
period at 4k=20
  RPMs. Timing advance still plummets when the car is leaned out past =
10.8:1 or=20
  so, at boost levels from 14 to 19 psi. This has been verified by 3 =
different=20
  wideband O2s. The car's compression is perfect, 172-175 across the =
board, no=20
  visible blow-by anyways, and it burns no oil. The car actually lost =
power=20
  going from 10.7 to 12.0 a/f on the dyno, 450 rwhp to 445 (although it =
picked=20
  up some torque before it pulled ~4 degrees of timing). All other =
Supras I've=20
  heard of pick up some power when leaned out, even on pump gas, and =
even past=20
  12.5:1, as long as its only for one dyno pull.</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: =
black">Does anyone=20
  have any experience with false knock associated with a/f ratios? Is it =

possible that my car simply makes more knock-noise than others? =
Unfortunately=20
 I don't have access to other Supras to experiment on w/ a digital =
scope. It=20
 doesn't seem likely that the ECU would pick up false knock only when =
the car=20
 is leaned out, but given that the compression is so good (59k miles of =
HARD=20
 driving, lots of long highway pulls, and quite a few road course miles =
too)=20
 thats the only thing I can think of. A plug chop on the dyno revealed =
no=20
 noticable cylinder imbalance. Coolant temps make no difference, even =
as low as=20
 160F.<SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">&nbsp;<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 A =
few people=20
 have told me the squish area or the quality of valve seat installation =
could=20
 have a large effect on knock threashold. However, given that I have =
good=20
 compression and the plugs have never showed signs of det (even when it =
pulls 8=20
 degrees of timing), it doesn't seem likely to me. I'm all out of =
things to try=20
 though, except for trying another ECU which should be coming in the=20
 mail.<SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">&nbsp;<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 Thanks for any=20
 help,<SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 Grant=20
 Beaty<SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 '97 T66 Supra=20
 TT 6-speed<SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <DIV=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black =
1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: =
0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: =
auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt"><FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-----Original=20
 Message-----<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From: Grant Beaty &lt;<A=20
 href=3D"mailto:gbeaty at ufl.edu">gbeaty at ufl.edu</A>&gt; <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: <A=20
 href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> &lt;<A=20
 =
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A>&gt; <SP=
AN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Date: Saturday, November 02, =
2002 12:01=20
 PM Subject: Re: =
[Diy_efi]=20
 Knock sensor Q<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: =
39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: =
0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">I just measured the 1st knock =
sensor's=20
 frequency with my ghetto-o-scope ( <A=20
 =
href=3D"http://polly.phys.msu.su/~zeld/oscill.html">http://polly.phys.msu=
.su/~zeld/oscill.html</A>=20
 ), and it appeared to have a period of about .08ms at 4k RPMs, whereas =
the=20
 repair manual states it should have a frequency of .123ms. Does anyone =
know if=20
 this is a signifant difference? (I know there is virtually no chance =
of anyone=20
 have any idea, but hey, it worth a try since sensors are $130 a=20
 pop).<SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: =
39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: =
0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">&nbsp;<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: =
39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: =
0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Thanks for any =
help?<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: =
39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: =
0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Grant<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></DIV>
 <DIV=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black =
1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: =
0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; =
PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt"><FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-----Original=20
 Message-----<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From: Grant Beaty &lt;<A=20
 href=3D"mailto:gbeaty at ufl.edu">gbeaty at ufl.edu</A>&gt; <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: <A=20
 href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> &lt;<A=20
 =
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A>&gt; <SP=
AN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Date: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 =
2:20=20
 PM Subject: Re: =
[Diy_efi]=20
 Knock sensor Q<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: =
43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">It read the same as another =
FJO they had=20
 at the dyno, and the same as a friend's FJO, and the same as another =
friend's=20
 FJO, etc.<SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: =
43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">&nbsp;<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: =
43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Grant<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></DIV>
 <DIV=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black =
1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: =
0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 47.25pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: =
auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt"><FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-----Original=20
 Message-----<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From: Justin Starkey @ VMP =
&lt;<A=20
 =
href=3D"mailto:justinv6 at bellsouth.net">justinv6 at bellsouth.net</A>&gt; =
<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: <A=20
 href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> &lt;<A=20
 =
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A>&gt; <SP=
AN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Date: Monday, October 28, 2002 =
12:05=20
 PM Subject: Re: =
[Diy_efi]=20
 Knock sensor Q<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: =
47.25pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: =
0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I can't =
help you=20
 with the Knock sensor.&nbsp; How accurate was yor FJO WB? I haven't =
had a=20
 chance to test mine against any others.<SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: =
47.25pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: =
0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Justin Starkey <A=20
 =
href=3D"http://www.VelocityMustangPerformance.com">www.VelocityMustangPer=
formance.com</A> **Quote=20
 Original E-Mail In Reply**<SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></DIV>
 <DIV=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black =
1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- =
Original=20
 Message ----- <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; PADDING-BOTTOM: =
0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; =
PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
 <DIV style=3D"font-color: black">From:<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A=20
 title=3Dgbeaty at ufl.edu href=3D"mailto:gbeaty at ufl.edu">Grant Beaty</A>=20
 </DIV><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:<FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A=20
 title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
 href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> =
<FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:<FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Sunday, =
October 27,=20
 2002 11:22 PM<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:<FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> [Diy_efi] =
Knock=20
 sensor Q<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Has anyone ever seen a knock =
sensor, or=20
 even a ECU, go bad &amp; trigger knock sooner than =
others?<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">&nbsp;<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">My car actually makes peak =
power with an=20
 a/f of about 10.5:1 on pump gas. It doesn't matter if the boost is 15 =
or 19,=20
 it just pulls too much timing. Leaning out from mid-high 10s to 12.0: =
lost=20
 5rwhp, and its even worse in the 1/4 mi, where it at WOT longer (2-3 =
mph would=20
 be lost with a similar tuning change).<SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">&nbsp;<FONT=20
 color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p>
 <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">I've done a plug chop on the =
dyno, and=20
 it didn't show any cylinder imbalance. Compression is 172-175 in all=20
 cylinders. My FJO WB has been verified against others. Carbon build up =
isn't=20
 possible with my driving style. So the only thing left to check is the =

  electronics, and new knock sensors aren't cheap, so I'm asking here=20
  first.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Thanks for any =
help,</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">Grant Beaty</SPAN></FONT><FONT =

  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 51pt; =
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; =
BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black">'97 Toyota Supra T66=20
  6-speed</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
</HTML>

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