[Diy_efi] What Injector Is This?

Mon Apr 7 12:08:40 GMT 2003

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I cleaned my Pro-M maf elements this weekend and looked for the elements to
glow on either power-on or power-off.
It didn't glow at either time.
Now, I wasn't actually running the engine before power-off, I just kept the
key on for a minute.
Again, this is on a Ford Mustang.

-----Original Message-----
From: Perry Harrington [mailto:pedward at apsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 11:20 PM
To: List for general do-it-yourself EFI talk
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] What Injector Is This?

Mike,

200C is 424 degrees farenheit.  That is really damn hot.  Consider
also that it's above ambient.  If it's 100 degrees ambient, that element
is 524 degrees.  That is about like a soldering iron.

The bosch MAFs don't get nearly that hot, that's why they have a burn
off pulse.

The Ford MAFs are dumb, they have no external "burnoff" signal.  The
circuitry inside is just the driver and calibration.

I have not looked inside the MAF at poweroff.  The MAF is directly
powered via 5v from the ECU, it doesn't have an external power.  When
the ECU powers down the MAF loses all power.

--Perry

On Fri, Apr 04, 2003 at 11:40:04AM +0800, Mike wrote:
> At 12:14 PM 4/3/03 -0800, you wrote:
> >My Probst book has a blurb about the MAF, I'll fine the schematic
> >of it elsewhere.
> 
> Great, I'm interested in alternatives,
> 
> >The cold wire which is not exposed to the air stream is not heated,
> >it simply is a thermister.  The Hot wire is heated to 200C above
> >ambient, so you can see, it's always very hot.
> 
> Yes true, I have the old Bosch yellow book from 1982 same mostly,
> 
> I'm curious if you have ever looked down the throat of the AFM
> when powering off etc ?
> 
> rdgs
> 
> mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >--Perry
> >
> >On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 07:36:22PM +0800, Mike wrote:
> >> Its very similar, the bosch element in mine is not
> >> that small - looks like the wire length is some 60mm
> >> arranged in a loop.
> >> 
> >> I dont think its a design issue (read flaw) wich means
> >> the Bosch 'needs' a large clean current as might be
> >> implied. Bosch seem to go to some trouble with
> >> issues like cal and an automatic clean as such is
> >> bound to be more reliable than relying on people to
> >> do it - which I still find perplexing.
> >> 
> >> Have you ever looked into the throat of one of these
> >> ford MAFs and watched if it does or doesnt apply a
> >> current pulse - maybe it does but its not enough to
> >> make the wire glow.
> >> 
> >> Yes, I would like to see a schema of the ford MAF,
> >> the 'clean' may well be supplied by the ecu and not
> >> be inherent in the MAF as it is for bosch, as far
> >> as I can determine from all I've read on these
> >> issues - some sort of 'clean' burn is very helpful...
> >> 
> >> rgds
> >> 
> >> mike
> >
> >-- 
> >Perry Harrington			Data Acquisition & Instrumentation,
Inc	
> >perry at dainst dot com
http://www.dainst.com/
> >
> >Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
> safety
> >deserve neither liberty or safety. Nor, are they likely to end up with
> either.
> >                             -- Benjamin Franklin
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Diy_efi mailing list
> >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> >http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi

-- 
Perry Harrington			Data Acquisition & Instrumentation,
Inc	
perry at dainst dot com
http://www.dainst.com/

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
safety
deserve neither liberty or safety. Nor, are they likely to end up with
either.
                             -- Benjamin Franklin

_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>I cleaned my Pro-M maf elements this weekend and looked for the elements to glow on either power-on or power-off.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>It didn't glow at either time.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Now, I wasn't actually running the engine before power-off, I just kept the key on for a minute.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Again, this is on a Ford Mustang.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Perry Harrington [<A HREF="mailto:pedward at apsoft.com">mailto:pedward at apsoft.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 11:20 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: List for general do-it-yourself EFI talk</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] What Injector Is This?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Mike,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>200C is 424 degrees farenheit.&nbsp; That is really damn hot.&nbsp; Consider</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>also that it's above ambient.&nbsp; If it's 100 degrees ambient, that element</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>is 524 degrees.&nbsp; That is about like a soldering iron.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>The bosch MAFs don't get nearly that hot, that's why they have a burn</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>off pulse.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>The Ford MAFs are dumb, they have no external &quot;burnoff&quot; signal.&nbsp; The</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>circuitry inside is just the driver and calibration.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I have not looked inside the MAF at poweroff.&nbsp; The MAF is directly</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>powered via 5v from the ECU, it doesn't have an external power.&nbsp; When</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the ECU powers down the MAF loses all power.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>--Perry</FONT>
</P>

On Fri, Apr 04, 2003 at 11:40:04AM +0800, Mike wrote:
 &gt; At 12:14 PM 4/3/03 -0800, you wrote:
 &gt; &gt;My Probst book has a blurb about the MAF, I'll fine the schematic
 &gt; &gt;of it elsewhere.
 &gt; 
 &gt; Great, I'm interested in alternatives,
 &gt; 
 &gt; &gt;The cold wire which is not exposed to the air stream is not heated,
 &gt; &gt;it simply is a thermister.&nbsp; The Hot wire is heated to 200C above
 &gt; &gt;ambient, so you can see, it's always very hot.
 &gt; 
 &gt; Yes true, I have the old Bosch yellow book from 1982 same mostly,
 &gt; 
 &gt; I'm curious if you have ever looked down the throat of the AFM
 &gt; when powering off etc ?
 &gt; 
 &gt; rdgs
 &gt; 
 &gt; mike
 &gt; 
 &gt; 
 &gt; 
 &gt; 
 &gt; &gt;--Perry
 &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt;On Thu, Apr 03, 2003 at 07:36:22PM +0800, Mike wrote:
 &gt; &gt;&gt; Its very similar, the bosch element in mine is not
 &gt; &gt;&gt; that small - looks like the wire length is some 60mm
 &gt; &gt;&gt; arranged in a loop.
 &gt; &gt;&gt; 
 &gt; &gt;&gt; I dont think its a design issue (read flaw) wich means
 &gt; &gt;&gt; the Bosch 'needs' a large clean current as might be
 &gt; &gt;&gt; implied. Bosch seem to go to some trouble with
 &gt; &gt;&gt; issues like cal and an automatic clean as such is
 &gt; &gt;&gt; bound to be more reliable than relying on people to
 &gt; &gt;&gt; do it - which I still find perplexing.
 &gt; &gt;&gt; 
 &gt; &gt;&gt; Have you ever looked into the throat of one of these
 &gt; &gt;&gt; ford MAFs and watched if it does or doesnt apply a
 &gt; &gt;&gt; current pulse - maybe it does but its not enough to
 &gt; &gt;&gt; make the wire glow.
 &gt; &gt;&gt; 
 &gt; &gt;&gt; Yes, I would like to see a schema of the ford MAF,
 &gt; &gt;&gt; the 'clean' may well be supplied by the ecu and not
 &gt; &gt;&gt; be inherent in the MAF as it is for bosch, as far
 &gt; &gt;&gt; as I can determine from all I've read on these
 &gt; &gt;&gt; issues - some sort of 'clean' burn is very helpful...
 &gt; &gt;&gt; 
 &gt; &gt;&gt; rgds
 &gt; &gt;&gt; 
 &gt; &gt;&gt; mike
 &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt;-- 
 &gt; &gt;Perry Harrington&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Data Acquisition &amp; Instrumentation, Inc 
 &gt; &gt;perry at dainst dot com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A HREF="http://www.dainst.com/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.dainst.com/</A>
 &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt;Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
 &gt; safety
 &gt; &gt;deserve neither liberty or safety. Nor, are they likely to end up with
 &gt; either.
 &gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- Benjamin Franklin
 &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt;_______________________________________________
 &gt; &gt;Diy_efi mailing list
 &gt; &gt;Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
 &gt; &gt;<A HREF="http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi" TARGET="_blank">http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi</A>
 &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt;
 &gt; 
 &gt; _______________________________________________
 &gt; Diy_efi mailing list
 &gt; Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
 &gt; <A HREF="http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi" TARGET="_blank">http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi</A>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Perry Harrington&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Data Acquisition &amp; Instrumentation, Inc </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>perry at dainst dot com &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A HREF="http://www.dainst.com/" TARGET="_blank">http://www.dainst.com/</A></FONT>
</P>

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety
 deserve neither liberty or safety. Nor, are they likely to end up with either.
 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- Benjamin Franklin

<P><FONT SIZE=2>_______________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Diy_efi mailing list</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2><A HREF="http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi" TARGET="_blank">http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi</A></FONT>
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