[Diy_efi] J1850 PWM Info Request

[Rick Richard]

From: Adam Wade <espresso_doppio at yahoo.com>

>You want the information.  If the information costs
>$80, you ask yourself if it is worth $80 to you or
>not.  If it's not, or if you can't afford $80, then
>you have to come up with an alternate method of
>obtaining the information (if it is).

I agree with you there, and obviously I'm seeking the
least expensive method of obtaining this information.
Similarly, I prefer using dictionary.com to purchasing
a new text dictionary because it is faster, cheapter, and
can be updated without requiring the purchase of a new book.

>You can choose to learn enough to have written the
>book yourself, or you can ask someone who knows and
>will share, or you can break the law by violating
>copyright laws.
>There are a variety of choice, with a variety of
>possible consequences and ethical issues.

I only suggested copying because it is much less tedious than
typing out technobabble in an email.  The concept I was envisioning
was more like loaning a book to a friend, but I see your point about
the copyright issue.  I don't want a specific book, or an entire book,
or anything like that.  They won't let you check out the reference books
at the library, but you can photocopy a couple pages for your report.
Perhaps that helps to clarify my ethical standpoint on this one.  I see
how the suggestion could offend some people, however, so I apologize for 
that.

>I don't understand the idea of expecting things for
>free.  How do you think the people who discovered the
>principles and details of operation of the technology
>we use today would have survived to create it unless
>someone compensated them for doing the work?

Maybe we should charge each other for this conversation, then?
Or pay taxes for the air we breathe?  I agree that people who
do good work should get fairly compensated for it, but fairness
is very subjective.  If the book were $20 new or used, I'd buy it.
The latest edition, however, lists for $110 and isn't popular in
the used market.  The older edition is around $80.  That's too much
for me and my DIY project.  I'm within my right to opt not to purchase
the book and seek the information elsewhere, which is what I'm trying
to do.  You're within your right to detest me for it.
I have always felt that information should be free.  It can be used to
manufacture products for profit, which can then compensate inventors.
The patent system works this way.  You can search and view patents for
free at www.uspto.gov, but the law protects the inventor's interest in
the idea.  You mentioned that when I buy a book, I'm not buying paper
and ink, but information.  That's only true sometimes.  There's a lot
of information distributed for free in electronic form, but you can
choose to purchase it verbatim as a hard copy.

>I don't rue someone asking for answers or ideas (I do
>it myself all the time).  However, if the answers you
>want are contained in a book, and you ask very frankly
>for the answers for free, but disparage spending money
>on the book, that says more about your expectations
>than about what the information is worth to you.

The answers to most of our questions are contained in a book somewhere.
As I stated before, I'm not actually asking for specific pages out of
a specific book, although I may have unintentionally come off that way.
I just know of two sources for the information I'm looking for, and if
someone preferred to just scan a page rather than type up an email
that would work just as well.  Many people may reject that on ethical
grounds, and I respect that objection.  I hope that has been made clear.

>Presumably, they worked hard to create the product,
>and with a limited market, they're not going to give
>away their sales.  I don't blame them much, either.

I have no objection to the fact that someone decided to create a product
and protect their interest in it.  The J1850 protocol is an industry
standard, however.  I don't want someone's proprietary software, I just
want the elusive PWM protocol specifications so I can develop my own
software and share it.  I realize that a couple of cheap products exist
that have the functionality I desire, but I don't like not knowing how
they work and I don't necessarily like the way the product is implemented.  
I can't change it if it is closed-source.  I'm sure other
DIYers will understand that sentiment.

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