[Diy_efi] Introduction of a Newbie

Wed Jul 6 13:25:20 UTC 2005

The 3x00 block and 3.1 block are two seperate revisions of the engine.  

3x00 (3500, 3400, 3100) are all "3rd" generation 60 deg. V6, utilize
an aluminum block (weight savings!), crossdrilled mains, hyperteuitic
pistons, different brackets for both mounting and accessories (AC,
power steering, alternator), use SFI with 22 lb injectors, pushrod
with hydraulic tappetts, and roller rockers.  Also have known intake
plenum gaket problems, come with gear reduction starters that use less
amperage (fits all series)

3.1 / 2.8 are 2nd generation or "gen2" 60 degree V6.  They utilize
aluminum heads, cast iron block, hyperteuitic pistons, all were MPFI,
and all used 18 lb injectors in batch-fire mode (135,246).  Known for
long servicable life, easy to rebuild and work on.   Most of what i
said above is true, excepting there are no real major issues excepting
a leaking fuel pressure regulator at around 160,000 miles.  The 3x00
heads, and intake plenums will bolt up to this block.  I was
originally going to build this type of block and turbo charge it,
never got around to it though.

then theres the first gen 2.8, most notably used in the fiero, and
first generation j-bodies in the upscale models, they're all iron,
MPFI, had distributors (newer blocks are 'plugged' where the
distributor goes), and used MAF instead of MAP systems ('87 and
previous).  They are still strong running, and the heads flow better
once you open them up, for more information, see curtis walker's turbo
z24 site (http://www.turboz24.com) as he has chosen a set of first gen
all iron heads, and is running 12's in his cavalier.

I'm not positive if they ever put this in the Grand Am version of the
N-body, but i know the beretta is supposed to be an n-body too (i
believe) and maybe you can find the bracketry to mount it right there
in a pre-94 beretta....   They made LOTS of 5 speed berettas, so that
could make your vision of having the 'weekend swap' work out okay.  
You could keep your existing SFI and port it over, as most of the
sensors on the Gen2 are in similar places on the Gen3 (your existing)
motor...  and the engines the same displacement, just gotta swap the
SFI injectors over too.  That'd be sorta trick.

I'm not 100% positive, but your car MAY be OBD2, and if thats the
case, the OBD1 re-wire may be the only way to go.  N-bodies were the
first to get switched over, and i dont remember exactly what year they
started, but i know it was before the OCT/'95 Deadline...

Cheers, and good luck on the new job!

--LL

On 7/5/05, thecircusb0y <thecircusb0y at gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought that the 3100 used the same block as the 3.1. Do you know if
> its just the bolts, and if it may be possible to make an adapter
> plate?.hmm, this is going to set me back, i didn't want to do any engine
> swaps, but I also kinda realized, if I can build another engine, and
> bolt the 5spd onto it outside of the car, then i can do the swap nice
> and easy without losing my car for a long time. Do you know if its just
> the bolts, and if it may be possible to make an adapter plate?
> 
> Shoot, if i did that, I wouldn't be a3100 underdog. and if i did change,
> would I really want to go with a 3.1 or up to a 3.4 dohc, and deal with
> timing belt issues. an l67 would kill the 5spd transmission too.
> Decisions, Decisions.
> Then again, theres alot more on the 3.1 as far as documentation, and
> parts. Hell, it's already been made with a turbo.
> Was the 2.8 the engine which had a 5spd bolted up to it stock?
> 
> Sorry for the displacement of thoughts without organization, Its 2am,
> and i can't get to sleep, and I start my new job in 6 hours. I'm
> completely scared shitless.
> 
> 
> Lee M. Lemoine wrote:
> 
> >Chris,
> >
> >The fuel injection your looking to program can be easily tweaked.  I
> >own a 1993 Cavalier Z24 with a Mclaren 3.1 Turbo and a 5 speed, and
> >had to work with a few others to build a custom 'prom'.   While i
> >don't have the bin file handy, there is a much later revision
> >available on the web, and i can locate that for you.
> >
> >I can tell you however, that the HM-282 won't bolt to the 3100 block
> >-- i remember a few J-body members were trying this a long while back,
> >i forget why though.   You may end up with the 3.1 liter block with a
> >set of 3100 heads...  I'd reccomend looking for a used '89 or '90
> >Turbo Grand Prix block (read up on it) and swapping the 3400 heads
> >(larger valving)...  And just leaving it on MPFI (ie: do away with the
> >SFI).  The injectors that come on the 3x00 are 22 lb, and are teh same
> >that come on the turbo grand prix, so starting off should be okay as
> >well.
> >
> >If you've got any questions, feel free to ask me.  I've got my new
> >site 'sorta' running at http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/  with lots of
> >pictures of the 'toying' in http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/gallery/
> >
> >--Lee
> >Rhode Island, USA
> >
> >On 7/4/05, alladinsaane at verizon.net <alladinsaane at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>HEY CHRIS....CHRIS IN NORTH JER Z HERE....HERES 2 WEBSITES THAT WILL HAVE JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU NEED AND/OR LINKS TO GET IT....www.moates.net and www.tunercat.com    all the equipment and software.... this is the real deal....you can write an e-mail if you cant figure out what you'll need and these guys will hook you up.....good luck....chris in north jer z                                                              >From: thecircusb0y <thecircusb0y at gmail.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Date: Mon Jul 04 11:54:05 CDT 2005
> >>>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> >>>Subject: [Diy_efi] Introduction of a Newbie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Whats shaken?
> >>>   My names Chris, and I came across this mailing list while looking
> >>>for ways to tune my car. I own a 1994 Pontiac Grand Prix, with a V6
> >>>3100. I'm currently at a community college getting a Computer Systems
> >>>and Networking degree, took me awhile to finally decide on computer
> >>>science for when I transfer out of this town, and somewhere here in New
> >>>York State.
> >>>    I've been looking and have found alot of sites, but I'm still
> >>>reading more. What I'd like to do, but I'm not sure if I can, is
> >>>interface my laptop with the car, and tune it from there. I'd also like
> >>>to learn what I would need to reprogram the cars ECM to handle a HM-282
> >>>trans axle and possibly a turbo later on down the line. Though I'll need
> >>>to know what language they use to program these bad boys, and what
> >>>equipment I need to read and write to them. So far all the sites I find
> >>>are for LS1's and all the sports cars of GM. Sometimes I wonder if it'd
> >>>be easier to goto OBD-II, but i know that would be a pain in the ass,
> >>>and would probably be easier to do an l67 swap into the car, but I want
> >>>to stick to my v6 3100 and be the underdog that believes this engine can
> >>>not only be a reliable daily drive, but a powerhouse on the track.
> >>>I was hoping that if I spoke to human beings someone could set me
> >>>straight and help me out in understanding all of this, I'm pretty die
> >>>hard in learning to do it yourself. I hope I can contribute anything I
> >>>know to this mailing list also. Thanks alot for takin the time to read
> >>>this and i'm hopin for some replies.
> >>>
> >>>-Christopher Barnum
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 

-- 
Sincerely,

Lee M. Lemoine
http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/