[Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs...

Thu Jun 9 02:00:46 UTC 2005

No one is saying that the plugs don't work. We're simply questioning the scientific basis (or lack thereof) of their claims on the website. No actual data was provided or any mention of who the 'independent studies' were performed by. People by nature find it difficult to accept things without tangible proof. If a bear craps in the woods and no one is there to step in it, did it really crap? All we're asking for is some solid data to back the claims. Seems like everyone who posted wanted to know how the would test out in a running vehicle by someone knowledgeable and TRUSTED. I'm out in Seattle and would be very interested to see your friends set-up. I would gladly take a five hour jaunt for a good learning experience. Feel free to shoot me some info.

BTW, Honda stopped using the pre-chamber heads because they DIDN'T work like the thought they would. ;p

Ernest Buckler <ebuckler at icehouse.net> wrote:
Top reply:
OK, let's get this straight: The science behind these plugs is NOT shakey at 
all, it is perfectly sound: A spark ignites a flame in a small semi-seperate 
chamber, this flame grows and then shoots out of holes into the main chamber 
and ignites a very lean mix that could not otherwise be ignited by a single 
spark. Honda and many others have built and sold millions of pre-chamber 
engines. Whether or not they can improve on the equally excellent 
combustion science in the most modern engines that achieve clean burn by 
other means, is another question alltogether. Don't be bad-mouthing a 
new?different approach that has thousands of hours behind it, created & 
tested by intelligent men, just because YOU fail to understand it. For 
another example, there's a company in Sand Point, Idaho, that has GLOW PLUGS 
running in standard engines, getting excellent results that I have seen with 
my own eyes. They are being fought to the death by Champion, Bosche, NGK, 
etc. No igniton system, no distributor, just 12v until the engine is warm, 
turn off power to the plugs, engine continues to run and perform just fine. 
He refuses to sell to these big mfgrs. because they all make his royalty 
money dependent on number of plugs sold, and not one of them will guarantee 
to market his plug; meaning that they merely want to PREVENT them from 
getting on the market. He has these plugs running in aircraft (!!!), and I 
know the pilots, they love them. JD Simplot (potatos) has a research van 
with a 351 Ford V8 in it, using these plugs, that runs just fine on 50/50 
alcohol/water. These plugs will fire kerosene, alcohol, diesel, jet fuel, 
propane, all in the same engine. The inventor and his team are sincere, 
honest, hard-working men & women who have put many thousands of hours and 
their life savings into this, only to be balked at every turn by the big 
players who control the spark plug industry. I am also sure they are very 
extremely depressed that they didn't think to include spark ignition engines 
in their patents, because the flame pattern looks EXACTLY like that of the 
Greenfire plugs - the glow-plug design controls TIMING by the size and shape 
of the internal holes & venturi(s), so yes, that answers a lot of 
questions several others have asked. This is not second-hand theorizing, 
guys; I've seen the demos and know the test drivers and pilots who trust 
these plugs with their lives. Proven beyond a doubt, but getting the 
product to market when powerful forces don't want it on the market, is a 
very real challenge. BTW, I never believed any of these "invention 
suppression" stories either, until I met this group, if that's any comfort 
to you other doubters out there.

Ernie B.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jared Ryan" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs...

>I agree, but what about on a wet manifold, like a GM TBI?
>
> I am about to convert an '84 Chevy El Camino with a 305 and QuadraJet to 
> TBI, and I am considering testing a spacer that is supposed to make swirl, 
> to put some objective numbers on it... 1/4-mile ETs, 60-foot times, etc. 
> I'm an amateur but I'm a natural tinkerer, so I'm curious.
>
> I agree that the swirl would have no effect (and I doubt there would be 
> any swirl by the time the air reaches the ports) on a multiport engine but 
> I wonder if it helps any on a TBI engine. My guess is that it all depends 
> on the exact engine/manifold setup.
>
> I've enjoyed following this discussion, and I agree the "science" behind 
> these spark plugs looks very shaky. My understanding (limited though it 
> is) is that once you start the flame, it spreads, period. The only 
> engines I know of where there was a big problem lighting off the mixture 
> was old gasoline engines with very big bores, like used on Seagrave and 
> LaFrance fire trucks before they switched to Diesel. I have heard they 
> had two spark plugs per cylinder simply because the bores were so big, to 
> ensure complete ignition. Unfortunately I have not gotten to see such an 
> engine taken apart.
>
> Going back into lurk mode, enjoying the discussions. :-)
>
> ---> Jared Ryan <---
> jryan at caminofx.org | http://www.caminofx.org
> Yahoo!: gerhardr2001 | ICQ: 8457412
>
> On Jun 8, 2005, at 3:51 PM, Daniel R. Nicoson wrote:
>
>> I put this device up there with the intake swirl plates (mount right 
>> after
>> the throttle body) that are supposed to induce a "vortex" to intake air 
>> on
>> an EFI engine. "This results in more complete mixture distribution". 
>> Those
>> damn things ignore the fact that there is NO mixture to be distributed 
>> until
>> the intake port where the fuel injector is squirting fuel!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
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