[Diy_efi] RE: Reality Check - off topic

[Cad Company Support]

Good cylinder pressure on most cylinders suggests bent valves rather than
incorrect cam timing (cam timing should affect all cylinders evenly in most
cases).

A compression test requires the cam turn properly. A leakdown test does not
(if you pull the rockers). However, a leak down test gives percentages, not
pressure readings.

I suspect you'll be able to get it right by pulling the heads and replacing
the bent valves (or maybe just cutting them). Considering you are here, I
suspect you can do that (or most of it) yourself... 

The Mitchell labor manual calls for 5.3 hrs for the timing chain and gears
and 5.0 hrs for the oil pan. That's $885 labor here. The stock plastic
covering on the gears gets into the oil pan, and can clog the pickup tube if
a lot of it has come loose, but you don't know that until you are into the
job. A good service writer/ technician team should have brought this to your
attention (as well as the possibility of bent valves). 
They may be guilty of no more than incomplete diagnosis - meaning they
didn't see all of the damage, but they did everything you paid them to. Yes,
it bites. Had you known the bill would be $1000 and still not be done, you
may have ditched the car. However, it sounds like they may have done what
you paid for, in which case stopping payment is something you should check
with a lawyer about before taking action. 

CW

-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org
Sent: None
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: Diy_efi Digest, Vol 18, Issue 21

Sorry for the off topic post but I know there's a lot of mechanical 
knowledge here and thought I'd solicit some opinions on this situation. 

We just returned from the vacation-from-hell.  Amy's wagon ate the 
timing chain in upstate NY.  We got towed into a garage where they 
quoted 4-5 hours labor,  $450 to $500 to fix it.  They stumbled and 
bumbled around with it for 3 days (each time I asked they were almost 
done,  only a couple more hours) while we waited and finally at about 
5:30 on the third day they started it,  but it ran like garbage and was 
leaking antifreeze from around the water pump and had a major oil leak 
from the valve cover.  They fiddled with the plug wires for 2 more hours 
before they finally gave up and pushed it out of the bay and into the 
yard.  They went home to supper and left me, Amy,  and the 2 kids (7 & 
4) sitting in the car for 5 hours waiting for my car hauler to be 
brought up from CT. 

Oh yes,  before they went home they handed me a bill for $1050.  The 
bill lists a tow ($27),  parts ($180) and the remainder labor:  replaced 
the timing chain & gears,  clean debris from the oil pan, and R&R valve 
covers for the compression test.  The owner feels perfectly justified in 
the 2X bill,  didn't know he had to clean the oil pan when he gave the 
estimate,  didn't include the compression test (& valve covers) in the 
estimate.

Some questions for the gang:

1) Is the 1988 Buick 3.8L V6 an interference engine?  What are the 
chances we bent a valve?

2) They did a compression check before doing the work and said all 6 
holes were 120 to 140.  They had to pull the valve covers and loosened 
the rockers since the cam wasn't turning.  I can't imagine how this is a 
valid test since the valves didn't open on the suck cycle.  Is there any 
way this could have been a valid compression test?

3)  I did a compression test this afternoon (cam's turning now :-) ),  
I've got 30 psi in hole #1, 90 in #3,  and about 120 in the others.  
Squirted oil in #1 and retested... still 30.  I pulled the valve cover 
to try to fix the oil leak and while it was off I removed the 2 rockers 
on #1 and retested... still 30 psi.

4)  They spent 3.5 to 4 hours trying to remove the oil pan to clean the 
debris out of it (billed me for 4.3 hours).  Is this reasonable for a 
Buick Century wagon?  Seems to me there should have been another way 
other than removing all the stuff they did.

5) Is there any way to check cam timing without  taking the timing cover 
(& water pump) off? 

I did some other checks too - all injectors are firing,  I have spark in 
all 6.  I'm thinking either a valve is bent in #1 or the cam timing is 
off.  Any thoughts would be appreciated,  my apologies again for the off 
topic post.

Best,

Bill





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End of Diy_efi Digest, Vol 18, Issue 21
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