[Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link

[Mike]

At 07:47 AM 10/25/06, you wrote:
>> Yes, the point about the article is that is petrol and pintle
>> adjustable for each cylinder, Eaton did have piezo injectors
>> around 30 years ago, still have the blurb somewhere circa 1977,
>
>The piezo stack is a key element and appears to be very similar to
>that in the PPD.

Sorry too many acronyms here, I'll have to look up PPD.

The old eaton injector was shaped just like a stainless horn of classic
exponential shape, ball at small end held in (partly) by fuel pressure and
signal activation caused this narrow end to oscillate from 40K to 60KHz,
I recall Eaton reporting improved fuel atomisation and projected fuel
economy gains of 5 to 10% over the standard injectors of the time but,
dont have article to hand, will be going through my store at some point
and will look out for it. I do recall the construction appeared rather
simpler than the unit I posted the link about,  but then again the Eaton
unit was designed for manifold injection, perhaps TBI type and not one
per cylinder etc But cant be 100% sure as its only on memory, think I
did make mention of it in my engineering thesis on efi in 1982, thats
the last I recall, I did ask for a price, was around $120 (back then) if the units
went into pilot - have the letter also in stores...

>> >So the small innovator is diverted from a primary goal to having to
>> >re-invent lots of wheels. e.g. diesel injectors capable of metering
>> >down to around 1 mg/stroke. [Which btw the VW-Mechatronic site said
>> >it'd achieve with the piezo unit injector. NO specs @ SiemensVDO.]
>
>> Not at all, though it does dissuade those without the combination of
>> focus and funds, it doesnt stop those who have a plan and for those that
>> dont have a plan it doesnt stop you if you are suitably enthusiastic to
>> procure the part and put it to the appropriate regimes of tests ?
>>
>> *grin*
>
>Suitably enthusiastic to buy a part at $2000 each, without the ECU?
>I assume that "suitably" also means that one be well financed by
>other means.

Bernd,
If you have an idle enquiry, ie.  to just get a part and mess with it for no
particular plan then it might well be sensible that the manufacturers
dissuade such time wasting with the method they have thus so far employed.

I take it the quote for the part at AUD/USD  $2000 is accurate and in any case
may not be that high if you consider its meant for stratified charge applications
where a considerable expense is likely to be outlayed in engine mechanics,
sort of precludes casual enquirers therefore $2000 is not unreasonable but my
point is that if you have good reason and have a plan you might get it for
far less etc

This price from factory in Europe or AutoClassic (as spare part) in Burswood, WA ?

If its an Autoclassic spare part price then be advised this includes a high profit margin
so BMW Australila can get lower customs duty price on cars and parts as the higher than
normal profit margin is accounted for by customs as "local content"  which does
significantly reduce their customs impost <sigh>   (not kidding)...!

So you'd get a much better price I would expect from factory if you approached
them carefully.

btw: The BMW bi-turbo 2997cc (with the piezo direct petrol injection) goes for approx
AUD$125,000 (incl some $7200 stamp duty) which is not that bad for a coupe with
225Kw/400Nm on tap and 9L/100Km highway cycle... AutoClassic have a couple of
demo models and a special offer so you can probably take one for a test drive, currently
they are sold out till late March,  For the short term though, I'd rather put $2000 getting
that power from my RB30ET as its already 165Kw (auto) and last spirited country trip i got
9.5L/100Km... (going country again in 2 months, hope to get down to 8.5L with other mods)...

And yes, you will need to plan your finances along with your goal, the
"financed by other means" that you suggest is the standard way one
does business when undertaking research, especially so where a
projected commercial outcome is pursued. ie You have/obtain capital
and decide where to best apply it, this is normal "other means" i would
have thought or where your approach includes debt funding then you
have a suitable upside amortisation plan etc etc.

>Or perhaps you mean suitably enthusiastic to break into cars and to
>steal the parts..

Please recall these posts end up in an archive, you are telling people
that your first thought and interpretation of enthusiastic action is
(even if you are joking) somewhat criminal in nature, ie Not strategic :(

Bernd,
Here is one suggested 'enthusiastic' course:-

Find the key people/department to make decisions in the company you
are approaching, get on the phone to them, follow up with fax and/or letter
describing your plan and requesting assistance (be polite and show you
understand commerce and business development at that level), in other words
basic commercial intelligence gathering in concert with your plan and
representation of your intention and methods to pursue etc Oh and
do this with some expediency upon any first response, there is nothing
worse than taking time to respond to the first contact return as you
lose the momentum and demonstrate lack of focus,

Hang on, dont you speak German (?), you are rather better prepared
to pursue that than most, yet you are implying a negative/criminal
course of action. If you approach a company in the right manner and
with a plan you are often able to get hold of a part for nothing and might
even get it including freight...! (I have done this on a few occasions since
1981 when I put EFI into my 1600cc ford escort xflow).

Here is another (possible) rather more "enthusiastic" course:-

Enrole at Carlisle tech into automotive engineering selected units, do a few
engine/transmission units, propose a plan to tech college dean for specialist injectors
for their single cylinder test engine, you might then get to play with one for free
though might take a few months, maybe enrole in a commercial psychology
unit at the same time and save travel costs for sheer strategy purposes  ;-)

>Perhaps it'd be far too straightforward for manufacturers to publish
>the specifications of the devices that they sell instead of
>encouraging vehicle theft! ;-)

Think about it Bernd,
It might be early days, in that the particular product is not (AFAIK) yet in
large scale distribution so company may well be following a rather
sensible strategy to dissuade time wasters using up resources asking inappropriate
questions on (initial) published specs, ie Those idle enquiries from people
who dont have a plan. In any tech organisation there are likely conflicting
priorities, (IMHO) its not sensible to prematurely publish specs thus
entertaining all sorts of vague enquiries from people when the primary
focus should be on delivering the parts and variations and all that goes
with it and the requisite followups with existing (major) customers such as BMW.
ie. The company probably has a wise selection criteria and this strategy
doesnt include premature spec publication (well, detailled ones at any rate).

Have you emailled, rang or faxed the company and the specific
department to get a full spec sheet yet (?), do you have a plan to use/try
the product (?), how about contacting the dept responsible for the
collation and publishing of the spec etc ?

<rhetorical question> I'm guessing your knee jerk to my post in
response to yours side-stepped that...

>/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia

 From the nature of your remonstration,

I reckon you'll need some  "Innovative Commercial Psychology"

*grin*

In closing, lets see if we can craft a perspective that is beyond mere reaction  :P


Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
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