[Diy_efi] Is E85 worth it?

[Mike]

At 02:03 AM 9/7/06, you wrote:
>> No surprise we arent seeing more fuel-cell powered cars out there - 
>> although I'd be really interested to see what becomes of the prototype 
>> diesel powered (not hydrogen) fuel cell I saw a few years back - I 
>> firmly believe hydrogen powered cars will never make it because
>> hydrogen 
>> is just too damn dangerous.
>
>Personally, *I* believe that hydrogen-powered vehicles will never make 
>it, NOT because of the danger (really not any more-so than gasoline) - 

Ooooo Disagree with you here and its likely most hazmat people will too.

Did you know H2 can ignite from its own generated static. Open the top
on a H2 bottle stand back and it will ignite from the static generated by
the gas leaving the bottle.

H2 is also quite sticky, it will form a layer on static surfaces for several
minutes and can penetrate cloths and other fabrics for over an hour.

H2 also causes embrittlement of most metals, especially steel. To use it
in a vehicle for any length of time means serious changes to the engine
or cranks will break etc...

The range of ignition of H2 is far wider than for petrol vapour, this and the
fact that H2 leaks out so easily of most fittings makes it far more dangerous
than petrol. ie. You dont need much H2 in a container (or near it) to have
an explosion, as little as 3% is enough by volume *and* if you consider its
static nature that can mean there is far more in other locations nearby
if the average is 3%. Also you dont need much air in H2 to ignite, I'm
not sure of the figure but it means you cant risk any pressurised containers
having *any* air or you have a sizable bang.

Oh and if you do have a hydrogen fire, you can see the flame front easily.

H2 is just such a bad fuel for storage and energy density. There is more
Hydrogen in a litre of petrol than there is in a litre of liquid hydrogen.

The infrastructure we have globally is already well suited to liquid fuels, it
would be a huge waste of resources to shift this to a gas that is so difficult
to liquify, harder to store and more dangerous to use.

>but because Hydrogen is just too damn hard to produce cheaply, and 
>contain and handle easily. (I won't even go into the "energy-in, energy-
>out argument)

Thats true, every method of producing hydrogen (so far) in any sort of volume
consumes far more petrol by almost a factor of 5 (best case) than is recovered
from the consumption of that hydrogen versus the petrol to generate it in the
first place or where the equilibrium is shifted in a refinery. Our own H2 bus
trial in perth is a *massive* waste of resources, the bust can only travel some
80Kms on a "fill' and BP "charge rather a lot". The buses are over a million
AUD$ each and have yet to have their fuel cells replatinised...

>You buy a tank of hydrogen, you think you're gonna have it for a good 
>long while? Not likely. It "finds ways" out of its containers. "I will 
>not be restrained!"  ;^D

Yes very true, the fittings are also subject to embrittlement and leaking out
doesnt always mean it goes up , its statically attracted to various surfaces...




>-Scott C.
>
>
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Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au