[Diy_efi] Re: Diy_efi Digest, Vol 30, Issue 6
Pablo Jr. Lamsis
pablojr
Tue Aug 21 23:12:21 UTC 2007
Bill,
How about checking the distributor shaft. I had the same problem before with
a Mercedez and after changing almost everything, I found out that the
distributor shaft was slightly bent causing a misfire on some cylinders.
Just a suggestion.
Pabs
----- Original Message -----
From: <diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 2:20 AM
Subject: Diy_efi Digest, Vol 30, Issue 6
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: 928/749 (Bill Shaw)
> 2. Re: 928/749 (Paul Bidmead)
> 3. Re: 928/749 (Mike)
> 4. Re: 928/749 (Gregg Eshelman)
> 5. RE: 928/749 (don.broadus at exeloncorp.com)
> 6. RE: 928/749 (Mike)
> 7. RE: 928/749 (b.shaw at comcast.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:22:29 -0400
> From: Bill Shaw <b.shaw at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] 928/749
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Message-ID: <46CA4C65.80601 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Well, a new coil helped some but didn't cure the problem. It will
> start and run now but is still dropping spark intermittently in a couple
> of cylinders. The pulses from the ignition module to fire the coil are
> nice and steady, don't miss a beat. Using the timing light on a couple
> of the plug wires shows erratic firing. It's starting to look like
> something in the distributor now, but I can't imagine what. The rotor
> and cap look find and check out OK with an ohmmeter.
>
> I was thinking about changing to a different ignition controller, maybe
> something like a MSD 6. Multiple sparks might be of some benefit, but
> the MSD really won't give me a stronger spark than using the GM 7 pin
> module, will it? The spark is generated by the coil, not the module,
> so I'll get the same voltage won't I?
>
> Bill
> Still not sparking on all 8
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Bill Shaw <b.shaw at comcast.net>
>>> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:12:12 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] 928/749
>>>
>>>
>>> Yep, swapped the coil with a spare I had in inventory (forgot that
>>> one, and a few more I'm sure!). I need to go back there and double
>>> check, the spare was used. No ballast resistors, I took them out
>>> when I did the 749 conversion. I'm off to buy a spark tester today.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the input guys.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> Steve Ravet wrote:
>>>
>>>> good point, it takes more energy to fire the plug under compression
>>>> than
>>>> in the air. You didn't mention testing/replacing the coil.
>>>>
>>>> --steve
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org
>>>>> [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of dgilbert78 at juno.com
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:49 PM
>>>>> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] 928/749
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello: Had a problem like that , everything was there , but would
>>>>> not run. final fix, spark wasn't hot enough. Go buy chep spark
>>>>> energy tester at parts store. If it does not troow a healthy gap,
>>>>> fix that. I went absolutely nuts. I had spark, everything, just not
>>>>> enough and the damn thing would not run.
>>>>> good luck
>>>>> Darryl..
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:33:37 -0700 "Steven P. Donegan"
>>>>> <steve at donegan.org> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Only takes 3 things to go bang - gas, spark and compression
>>>>>>
>>>>> - you've
>>>>>> verified 2 of the 3 below. Compression seems to be the only thing
>>>>>> left.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 23:23 -0400, Bill Shaw wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been chasing a long series of problems with my 928 since I
>>>>>>> installed the new motor this spring . Right now it won't
>>>>>>> start, it's having some weird electrical problem.
>>>>>>> A little background...
>>>>>>> I ran it in a similar configuration for 3 years... Porsche 4.7L
>>>>>>> v8, Vortech supercharger, GM ignition module, sensors, throttle
>>>>>>> body, and 749 ecu. Ran great, had loads of fun flogging the
>>>>>>> crap out of it on all the road courses in the northeast. Last
>>>>>>> fall it ate 2 spark plug tips and scored 2 cylinders at Lime
>>>>>>> Rock. New motor was in the works so I finished it up and got it
>>>>>>> in the car. The new one is a 5.0L Porsche v8, '87 big dish
>>>>>>> pistons, 16 valve ported & extrude honed heads all adding up to
>>>>>>> about 8.5:1 cr, bigger cams, bigger throttle body,
>>>>>> bigger exhaust. It ran pretty good for about 2 days, good
>>>>>> enough to set me back in my seat and put a grin on my face, then
>>>>>> it all went to he!! again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've swapped ECUs, ignition modules, plugs, cap & rotor, been
>>>>>>> through all the plug wires with an ohmmeter, wrung out the wiring
>>>>>>> harness from the sensors to the ECU. I'm getting fuel, I can
>>>>>>> hear all the injectors clicking, and have 43 lbs of fuel
>>>>>>> pressure. The REF
>>>>> signal from the distributor makes it through the ignition module
>>>>> to the ecu and the ecu is putting out EST pulses, verified by
>>>>> o'scope. #1 is firing at TDC with bypass unplugged. Everything is
>>>>> great, it just won't start.
>>>>>>>> Tonight we checked the cam timing and retensioned the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> timing belt.
>>>>>> I've been through all the basics I can think of, all is good but
>>>>>> no fire in the hole. I've reverted to my last known good bin while
>>>>>> doing all this testing. The only weird thing I can put my finger
>>>>>> on is with spark. I move my inductive timing light from wire to
>>>>>> wire checking for spark on all 8.
>>>>>>> I'll find one not firing (it changes some times), pull the
>>>>>>> wire off the spark plug, insert another spark plug in the wire
>>>>>>> and ground the tip on the block and it will fire, the timing
>>>>>>> light will light up. Move the wire back to the plug in the block
>>>>>>> and it won't fire. Pull the plug from the block, put it in the
>>>>>>> plug wire and ground the electrode on the block and it will fire
>>>>>>> again. WTF??? This is driving me nuts. I've pulled one plug
>>>>>>> wire off 3 times to check resistance, wiggled both ends and the
>>>>>>> whole wire looking for an intermittent break, everything is
>>>>>>> great, 3.1k ohms per spec.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm running out of ideas. Anyone have a thought??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> 928s 5.0L Vortech/749
>>>>>>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:41:59 +0800
> From: Paul Bidmead <bidmeadp at iinet.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] 928/749
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Message-ID: <46CA50F7.1070602 at iinet.net.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> it will give you boosted spark as the msd will drive the coil directly
> with its own internal driver altho if your having trouble with the spark
> distribution this may not actuall fix the problem moreso than simply
> mask it
>
> have you tried replacing the rotor and cap as it is possible that there
> is still a problem internally - i had a similar problem with my 4.1l
> cortina there was some evidence of flashover internally to the
> distributor housing which was unseen at first inspection
>
>
>
> Bill Shaw wrote:
>> Well, a new coil helped some but didn't cure the problem. It will
>> start and run now but is still dropping spark intermittently in a
>> couple of cylinders. The pulses from the ignition module to fire the
>> coil are nice and steady, don't miss a beat. Using the timing light
>> on a couple of the plug wires shows erratic firing. It's starting to
>> look like something in the distributor now, but I can't imagine
>> what. The rotor and cap look find and check out OK with an ohmmeter.
>> I was thinking about changing to a different ignition controller,
>> maybe something like a MSD 6. Multiple sparks might be of some
>> benefit, but the MSD really won't give me a stronger spark than using
>> the GM 7 pin module, will it? The spark is generated by the coil,
>> not the module, so I'll get the same voltage won't I?
>>
>> Bill
>> Still not sparking on all 8
>> _______________________________________________
>> Diy_efi mailing list
>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>>
>
> --
> Regards.
> Paul Bidmead
> Automated Test Engineer
> Omnitronics P/L
> PH: (08) 9445 6800
> Fax: (08) 9445 1687
> Mob: 0404 259 733
>
>
> =========================================================================
> The information in this e-mail is intended for the addressee only.
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:55:50 -0500
> From: Mike <mls928 at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] 928/749
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Message-ID: <mailman.52.1187709337.3064.diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Bill, if you haven't already, check to make sure there are good
> connections at both ends of the engine to chasis ground cable (under
> car on passenger side), check the connections at the battery
> (especially those smaller wires on the positive terminal), and the
> ground connection near the coil.
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 09:22 PM 08/20/07, you wrote:
>>Well, a new coil helped some but didn't cure the problem. It will
>>start and run now but is still dropping spark intermittently in a
>>couple of cylinders. The pulses from the ignition module to fire
>>the coil are nice and steady, don't miss a beat. Using the timing
>>light on a couple of the plug wires shows erratic firing. It's
>>starting to look like something in the distributor now, but I can't
>>imagine what. The rotor and cap look find and check out OK with an
>>ohmmeter.
>>I was thinking about changing to a different ignition
>>controller, maybe something like a MSD 6. Multiple sparks might be
>>of some benefit, but the MSD really won't give me a stronger spark
>>than using the GM 7 pin module, will it? The spark is generated by
>>the coil, not the module,
>>so I'll get the same voltage won't I?
>>
>>Bill
>>Still not sparking on all 8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----
>>>>From: Bill Shaw <b.shaw at comcast.net>
>>>>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:12:12 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] 928/749
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yep, swapped the coil with a spare I had in inventory (forgot
>>>>that one, and a few more I'm sure!). I need to go back there and
>>>>double check, the spare was used. No ballast resistors, I took
>>>>them out when I did the 749 conversion. I'm off to buy a spark tester
>>>>today.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for all the input guys.
>>>>
>>>>Bill
>>>>
>>>>Steve Ravet wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>good point, it takes more energy to fire the plug under compression
>>>>>than
>>>>>in the air. You didn't mention testing/replacing the coil.
>>>>>
>>>>>--steve
>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org
>>>>>>[mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of dgilbert78 at juno.com
>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:49 PM
>>>>>>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] 928/749
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello: Had a problem like that , everything was there , but
>>>>>>would not run. final fix, spark wasn't hot enough. Go buy chep
>>>>>>spark energy tester at parts store. If it does not troow a
>>>>>>healthy gap, fix that. I went absolutely nuts. I had spark,
>>>>>>everything, just not enough and the damn thing would not run.
>>>>>>good luck
>>>>>>Darryl..
>>>>>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:33:37 -0700 "Steven P. Donegan"
>>>>>><steve at donegan.org> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Only takes 3 things to go bang - gas, spark and compression
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>- you've
>>>>>>>verified 2 of the 3 below. Compression seems to be the only thing
>>>>>>>left.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 23:23 -0400, Bill Shaw wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've been chasing a long series of problems with my 928 since
>>>>>>>>I installed the new motor this spring . Right now it won't
>>>>>>>>start, it's having some weird electrical problem.
>>>>>>>>A little background...
>>>>>>>>I ran it in a similar configuration for 3 years... Porsche
>>>>>>>>4.7L v8, Vortech supercharger, GM ignition module, sensors,
>>>>>>>>throttle body, and 749 ecu. Ran great, had loads of fun
>>>>>>>>flogging the crap out of it on all the road courses in the
>>>>>>>>northeast. Last fall it ate 2 spark plug tips and scored 2
>>>>>>>>cylinders at Lime Rock. New motor was in the works so I
>>>>>>>>finished it up and got it in the car. The new one is a 5.0L
>>>>>>>>Porsche v8, '87 big dish pistons, 16 valve ported & extrude
>>>>>>>>honed heads all adding up to about 8.5:1 cr, bigger cams,
>>>>>>>>bigger throttle body,
>>>>>>>bigger exhaust. It ran pretty good for about 2 days, good
>>>>>>>enough to set me back in my seat and put a grin on my
>>>>>>>face, then it all went to he!! again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've swapped ECUs, ignition modules, plugs, cap & rotor, been
>>>>>>>>through all the plug wires with an ohmmeter, wrung out the
>>>>>>>>wiring harness from the sensors to the ECU. I'm getting
>>>>>>>>fuel, I can hear all the injectors clicking, and have 43 lbs
>>>>>>>>of fuel pressure. The REF
>>>>>>signal from the distributor makes it through the ignition
>>>>>>module to the ecu and the ecu is putting out EST pulses,
>>>>>>verified by o'scope. #1 is firing at TDC with bypass
>>>>>>unplugged. Everything is great, it just won't start.
>>>>>>>>>Tonight we checked the cam timing and retensioned the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>timing belt.
>>>>>>> I've been through all the basics I can think of, all is good
>>>>>>> but no fire in the hole. I've reverted to my last known good
>>>>>>> bin while doing all this testing. The only weird thing I can
>>>>>>> put my finger on is with spark. I move my inductive timing
>>>>>>> light from wire to wire checking for spark on all 8.
>>>>>>>>I'll find one not firing (it changes some times), pull the
>>>>>>>>wire off the spark plug, insert another spark plug in the
>>>>>>>>wire and ground the tip on the block and it will fire, the
>>>>>>>>timing light will light up. Move the wire back to the plug in
>>>>>>>>the block and it won't fire. Pull the plug from the
>>>>>>>>block, put it in the plug wire and ground the electrode on
>>>>>>>>the block and it will fire again. WTF??? This is driving me
>>>>>>>>nuts. I've pulled one plug wire off 3 times to check
>>>>>>>>resistance, wiggled both ends and the whole wire looking for
>>>>>>>>an intermittent break, everything is great, 3.1k ohms per spec.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm running out of ideas. Anyone have a thought??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bill
>>>>>>>>928s 5.0L Vortech/749
>>_______________________________________________
>>Diy_efi mailing list
>>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:45:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Gregg Eshelman <g_alan_e at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] 928/749
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Message-ID: <290594.46964.qm at web50311.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> --- Bill Shaw <b.shaw at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Well, a new coil helped some but didn't cure the
>> problem. It will
>> start and run now but is still dropping spark
>> intermittently in a couple
>> of cylinders. The pulses from the ignition module
>> to fire the coil are
>> nice and steady, don't miss a beat. Using the
>> timing light on a couple
>> of the plug wires shows erratic firing. It's
>> starting to look like
>> something in the distributor now, but I can't
>> imagine what.
>
> How many miles on the car? Could be worn bearings or
> bushings in the distributor or a worn shaft or
> possibly even the drive gear.
>
> With the cap and rotor off, you shouldn't be able to
> move the shaft up and down or rotate it more than a
> tiny amount. Try wobbling it sideways too.
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:02:14 -0500
> From: <don.broadus at exeloncorp.com>
> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] 928/749
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Message-ID:
> <F4F253665838734F841C5B2C63B72F948660D0 at CCCMSXCH01.energy.power.corp>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I read in circle track awhile back that it helps to ground the cylinder
> heads to the block or battery with a good ground strap. The head bolts
> going into the block having thread sealant on them don't give a good
> ground for the plugs.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On
> Behalf Of Gregg Eshelman
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:45 AM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] 928/749
>
>
> --- Bill Shaw <b.shaw at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Well, a new coil helped some but didn't cure the
>> problem. It will
>> start and run now but is still dropping spark
>> intermittently in a couple
>> of cylinders. The pulses from the ignition module
>> to fire the coil are
>> nice and steady, don't miss a beat. Using the
>> timing light on a couple
>> of the plug wires shows erratic firing. It's
>> starting to look like
>> something in the distributor now, but I can't
>> imagine what.
>
> How many miles on the car? Could be worn bearings or
> bushings in the distributor or a worn shaft or
> possibly even the drive gear.
>
> With the cap and rotor off, you shouldn't be able to
> move the shaft up and down or rotate it more than a
> tiny amount. Try wobbling it sideways too.
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>
> -----------------------------------------
> **************************************************
> This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon
> Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged,
> confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon
> Corporation family of Companies.
> This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or
> entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended
> recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation
> to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly
> prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail
> in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently
> delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout.
> Thank You.
> **************************************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:19:14 +0800
> From: "Mike" <niche at iinet.net.au>
> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] 928/749
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070821221748.027991c0 at iinet.net.au>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> At 10:02 PM 8/21/07, you wrote:
>>I read in circle track awhile back that it helps to ground the cylinder
>>heads to the block or battery with a good ground strap. The head bolts
>>going into the block having thread sealant on them don't give a good
>>ground for the plugs.
>
> Ah ha, that prob explains why the two small screws are used on the RB30
> head even though there are head to block locating collars in various
> places...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:15:31 +0000
> From: b.shaw at comcast.net
> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] 928/749
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Message-ID:
> <082120071515.14423.46CB019300024CAC000038572206999735990E089CD20D at comcast.net>
>
>
> Interesting.... There are a pair of grounds in teh injector harness on
> the passanger's side head but no grounds on the driver's side, which is
> where I'm having the trouble. That's definately worth a shot.
>
> Bill
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: <don.broadus at exeloncorp.com>
>> I read in circle track awhile back that it helps to ground the cylinder
>> heads to
>> the block or battery with a good ground strap. The head bolts going into
>> the
>> block having thread sealant on them don't give a good ground for the
>> plugs.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On
>> Behalf Of Gregg Eshelman
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:45 AM
>> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] 928/749
>>
>>
>> --- Bill Shaw <b.shaw at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Well, a new coil helped some but didn't cure the
>> > problem. It will
>> > start and run now but is still dropping spark
>> > intermittently in a couple
>> > of cylinders. The pulses from the ignition module
>> > to fire the coil are
>> > nice and steady, don't miss a beat. Using the
>> > timing light on a couple
>> > of the plug wires shows erratic firing. It's
>> > starting to look like
>> > something in the distributor now, but I can't
>> > imagine what.
>>
>> How many miles on the car? Could be worn bearings or
>> bushings in the distributor or a worn shaft or
>> possibly even the drive gear.
>>
>> With the cap and rotor off, you shouldn't be able to
>> move the shaft up and down or rotate it more than a
>> tiny amount. Try wobbling it sideways too.
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________________
>> ____
>> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
>> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Diy_efi mailing list
>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> **************************************************
>> This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon
>> Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged,
>> confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon
>> Corporation family of Companies.
>> This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or
>> entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended
>> recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any
>> dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation
>> to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly
>> prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail
>> in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently
>> delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout.
>> Thank You.
>> **************************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Diy_efi mailing list
>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
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>
>
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