[Diy_efi] Microcontroller based Auto Related Projects

Thu Nov 1 22:30:47 UTC 2012

There is tons of info on net about how it works.
There is annotated disassembled code from the GM ecms on several sites.
All these technologies have patents.  These are all available on the
net because patents are required to be published.

It's all out there just look a little smarter.

Maybe look up Ion-sense it was patented by Saab and the patent lapsed
a few years ago.  Now BMW is using it on a few engines.  There was a
lot of talk about it on this and other mail lists a few years ago and
it was has been well documented.

Keep searching.  Maybe look up speed density vs VE modeling and PDI
loops.  Or look at the early fuel only code for megasquirt.

No one wants to build your EFI system for you.  It will not be yours
if we help to much.

-Avery

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:03 PM, xyz Q <xyzqhtc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Driving a vehicle that would have your own designed and built ecu could feel
> like a 'mystical' experience, some what.
>
> We still run right, considering it was a major source of transportation a
> 100+ years ago now its mostly for recreational.
>
> I just think there's so little info pertaining to ecu controls even basic
> ones that probably its worth looking into.
>
> On Nov 2, 2012 8:40 AM, "David Allen" <davida1 at hiwaay.net> wrote:
>>
>> I always like microcontroller projects, have built some interesting
>> things, too. I was considering trying to build an ECU, but then I realized
>> something.  For me; with my project goals, GM had already engineered the
>> perfect ECU. It's so good that millions of them are out there on the road
>> today. Every parameter is configurable and the hardware is bulletproof. So I
>> went with a Delco 1227730 ECU, and focused my microcontroller projects on
>> other areas.  I made projects for where there aren't off-the-shelf, highly
>> cost-effective solutions already available.  I've built auto headlights
>> controller, air-levelling suspension controllers, parts-washer controller,
>> heat pump controller, speedometer calibration modules, and other odds and
>> ends. But the Delco ECU is just too cheap, available, rugged, and just plain
>> good at what it does to re-invent the wheel for an engine ECU. The learning
>> curve was a little steep learning the tuning, because there is SO MUCH in
>> the ECM program. But it was worth it in the end, because it's so
>> configurable.
>>
>> This is just my OPINION and I hope you guys take it as that. Not meaning
>> to discourage anyone. I wanted to tell about the end result of when I went
>> down the same path and the final decision I came to.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> David
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: xyz Q
>> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 3:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Microcontroller based Auto Related Projects
>>
>> All this is ok. But I'm thinking in order to get started, wouldn't be be
>> good if some experts could hold some basic ruts on this forum. Let's see
>> what some have to say, mainly very specific info eg., rpm counting, etc,
>> etc... But I know time would be a big issue for many.
>>
>> I downloaded some notes from Freescale on 68HC08 to introduce me to
>> Motorola MCUs. My only experience is with 80x86 MPU from back in tech
>> school.
>>
>> Anyways, here's an offtopic link that some might find useful. It's got
>> premium ebooks on just about every subject for free.
>>
>> www.freebookspot.es
>>
>> On Nov 1, 2012 1:06 PM, "Alan To" <toalan at 14point7.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> For me 5v operation is a must have so to be able to work with the widest
>>> range of sensors possible without additional burden of resistor dividers.
>>> The MPC555x is a $30 uC, you are doing some high end stuff, for high end
>>> stuff priorities are different, if you need to work with 5v sensors the cost
>>> of 0.1% or better tolerance resistors or an external ADC is probably not an
>>> issue. Originally we were talking about uCs in the same league as the 8 bit
>>> PICs, AVRs, and perhaps as high as ARM Cortex M3/M4.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Alan To
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/2012 5:41 AM, Bill Shaw wrote:
>>>
>>> The operating voltage is not a significant decision factor when choosing
>>> an automotive microprocessor.  The MPC5554 we are using has a 1.3 volt core
>>> and 3.3 volt I/O.  It is an awesome  automotive microprocessor,  but the
>>> array of peripherals and registers would be a bit daunting for the
>>> uninitiated.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On 10/31/2012 12:16 AM, Alan To wrote:
>>>
>>> It is a 3.3v chip and you really want 5v operation for automotive. The
>>> new Arduino Due will be a trainwreck, an epic one.
>>>
>>> On 10/30/2012 6:47 PM, xyz Q wrote:
>>>
>>> There's an ARM based Arduino. What would you say about that for a choice?
>>>
>>> On Oct 31, 2012 1:22 PM, "Avery Nisbet" <anisbet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Most of the hack a day projects are by IT/computer sci guys that
>>>> look down on getting their hands dirty with cars. If you look deeply
>>>> at some of the projects they will have really shoty electrical
>>>> engineering in them. Some of them are pure hacks and would not work in
>>>> a production sense.  Some are pretty decent.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Pics from an architecture point of view kinda suck. They were not
>>>> designed for use with stack based compilers(One working register).
>>>> The Motorola stuff was some of the 1st used in the automotive space.
>>>> The architecture lends itself to use with a compiler.  They are
>>>> designed for the harsher automotive environment.  Some will say they
>>>> have nicer hardware peripherals.  I would say some of the peripherals
>>>> were designed specifically for the automotive market. There is also a
>>>> pretty big code base to look at.  Oh and mostly anyone who went to
>>>> school for software or hardware who is older than say 30 was forced to
>>>> learn 6800(68HC11) or 68000 assembly language.  This usually involved
>>>> getting ahold of the purple data books motorola gave away for free
>>>> that were well enough written so you could get your class work or real
>>>> work done. I probably have 2 or 3 copies of the 68HC11 books laying
>>>> around somewhere. This being said there are many other options today
>>>> and I would look to ARM or AVR before I looked at PIC.  ARM is already
>>>> dominating the cheap 32bit market and is pretty easy to pick up. This
>>>> will help in the job search later. AVR's are pretty good for the 8bit
>>>> scene.  GCC supports them and ATMEL makes some automotive environment
>>>> parts.
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Go get yourself an Arduino(or other uC of choice), BIP373(OR GM
>>>> ignition module) and some optoisolators.  Then build a distributor
>>>> and/or crank trigger based ignition system. Then try turning that into
>>>> a full engine management solution using the peak and hold add in board
>>>> by Jbperf. Start researching the mega squirt schematics at the timing
>>>> input(tach) and the ignition output. Build those circuite on a bread
>>>> board and test on a bench. Then move them on to your test engine. It
>>>> could be a lawn mower engine or a V8 monster. Read up on timing
>>>> advance and program the Arduino to do a simple RPM only based timing
>>>> curve.  Then add a MAP and/or TPS sensors and add load as a factor of
>>>> your timing curve.  Then engine temp to add some cold start advantages
>>>> and you have all the sensors needed to do open loop EFI.  After adding
>>>> injectors you could add a wide band O2 sensor such as the LC-1 from
>>>> innovative motor sports or just a heated narrow band for cruze.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Avery
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:13 PM, xyz Q <xyzqhtc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Hi, I've been on the list for some time, on and off mainly reading
>>>> > bits,
>>>> > trying to find some interesting ideas. Unfortunately I was 10 years
>>>> > too
>>>> > late, when this forum had been in its prime.
>>>> >
>>>> > So here are my first set of questions that I hope on getting some
>>>> > answers,
>>>> > hopefully.
>>>> >
>>>> > 1. Why are there so little auto related uc based projects and ideas
>>>> > out
>>>> > there on the net? Look at hackaday.com, for example. Many projects,
>>>> > talented
>>>> > people but all they do is prove a point that some thing can be done.
>>>> > But
>>>> > guess what hardly something is really useful. I may have missed some
>>>> > good
>>>> > worth while so please put them here if you know.
>>>> >
>>>> > 2. If PICs are so popular, why are Motorola MCUs popular with auto
>>>> > projects?
>>>> > In terms of features aren't they on the same "level"?
>>>> >
>>>> > 3. The way I see to learn microcontroller based EMS or ignition is to
>>>> > look
>>>> > at it piece by piece. Megasquirt is great but it's hard to learn a
>>>> > complete
>>>> > system. Aren't there any web sites (I've seen DIYEFI) that have info
>>>> > on say
>>>> > ignition control, RPM handling with an MCU or other basic control
>>>> > concepts
>>>> > that can form the basis for EMS/Ign. related projects. I'd like to
>>>> > learn the
>>>> > basics and if there are specific approaches to this, I'd like to hear
>>>> > your
>>>> > side of the story. It would be helpful.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks and regards to all on the forum. Some projects here are really
>>>> > nice
>>>> > and inspiring.
>>>> >
>>>> > Nik.
>>>> >
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