[Gmecm] 1227747 rpm vs gear table

Darryl M Gilbert dgilbert78
Wed Jun 8 20:27:41 UTC 2005


David: Good for you on your tune success. I have also found another thing
that i totally overlooked, and that was speedo gearing. When i did my
swap i now understand more than i did from the start that before starting
any tuning one should make absolutely sure that all is in perfect working
order. MAP, IAC, O2 sensor, Knock, Ign Module , Dist phasing, and even
correct speedo gearing. Seems if one of those is incorrect it just makes
life a real bear trying to tune around a malfunction you are not aware
of. About tuner cat you are correct. On IAC alone there are a ton of
things here and there in the tables that are not covered. I found these
by just constantly searching the web, and have found some good stuff that
i do not know what i am going to do with yet Ha! I agree, i really do not
want a shift light, and do not care if i ever see one. I just found it an
interesting visual thing that would give me some feed back on what i was
changing in the EPROM. I have found nothing so far on that portion of the
tables. I have also finally figured out how by looking at those tables if
the PROM is for an auto or manual trans. That info i have not found
either, but think i have discovered how to determine that. I am not
really looking forward to the 100, 200, 300 chip burning, thats why i was
thinking about the romulator, I have heard good things about that route.
I figure i could always resell it and recover some of the expense. Thanks
for the reply
Darryl
On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:01:27 -0500 "David Haggard" <david at newcovenant.com>
writes:
> Darryl--
> 
> Thanks for the insight. But like I said, I find the light just plain 
> irritating, and basically useless because of where it is located on 
> my dash (far right, and out of line of sight when driving).
> 
> >From what you just described, I now understand what that table is 
> for that I never used. (The mph/rpm ratio table.) When I started, 
> the TunerCAT definition file for '747 didn't have that table defined 
> yet. I never saw it until I downloaded an update after I had already 
> disabled the light. That table wasn't right for my car, because the 
> '747 bin I started with was one from Edelbrock for a different 
> model. My car originally had the 1228063 ECM, and the TunerCAT 
> definition file for it was definitely lacking in the settings I 
> needed. My 305 build is so radical (1.25 horses per cubic inch 
> without power adders) that I had to use a combination of TunerCAT 
> and WinBin to get it right. Even had to build my own WinBin 
> definition file to get all the settings I needed. And even with 
> that, the only way I found to get a stable idle was to force it to 
> open loop idle by setting the open-loop idle threshholds at 
> 1175/1200 rpm, and opening up the throttle plate to allow less than 
> ten IAC counts at idle. That gives me a lopey but stable idle at 700 
> rpm, where a closed-loop idle will hold for a few seconds, then try 
> to stall, then jump up, then settle in again. Even if I shot for a 
> high idle speed.
> 
> But I digress....
> 
> I haven't used RT Tuner. I've built my car on extremely limited 
> budget. Get the parts as I can save up for them and buy them 
> basically one at a time. Took me 9 months to build the motor that 
> way! So while RT Tuner is a great piece of software, I haven't been 
> willing to spend another nearly two hundred bucks to get the 
> software and the ROMulator. So I did it the "old fashioned" way like 
> Bruce Plecan described. Like him, I've burned about 100 chips to 
> "get it right," and another 300 to "get it perfect."
> 
> Glutton for punishment-- Now I'm looking at building an LS2 copycat 
> starting from a 350, to get the torque that the 305 lacks.
> 
> David
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Darryl M Gilbert
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:51 AM
> > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 1227747 rpm vs gear table
> > 
> > David: From what i have learned so far you are correct 
> > partially. The TCC tables, and shift point tables, and load 
> > tables are all inter connected.
> > The TCC portion of the tables control shift light if no TCC 
> > or Kick down relay used. you simply do not connect any of 
> > these things. At this point you can use a light to show best 
> > shift point. Yes the ECM does not use this data for anything 
> > when shift light is used, but does use this stuff when TCC or 
> > Kick down relay. is required. I was just playing with it to 
> > better understand how the tables were derived. I do know that 
> > the 1st table does tell the ECM what gear you are in based on 
> > MPH/RPM ratio If these ratios are correct for your car it 
> > will then point to the correct entry in the shift point 
> > table. So far I have it working properly in 1st and 2nd but 
> > when in 3rd it still thinks i am in 2nd, this means the 1st 
> > table in my case is still incorrect. For 4th gear it is 
> > correct for i have that set to 254 and the light no longer 
> > comes on. What i was wanting to know is how is the first 
> > table computed?. I just wanted to know this to understand how 
> > they arrived at the numbers in there To determine what gear i 
> > was in i set the shift light at several points 1st 3000, 2nd 
> > 2500, 3rd 2000 and 4th 254 which is probably 200mph or better 
> > when in 3rd it still comes on at 2500 RPM meaning it did not 
> > move to the proper point in the shift table. It does however 
> > know i am in 4th for light never comes on like i told it not to.
> > thanks for the reply...did you ever use RT TUNER??????
> > Darryl
> > On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:32:30 -0500 "David Haggard" 
> > <david at newcovenant.com>
> > writes:
> > > I have an '88 Firebird with T5 manual, and running a '747. 
> > The shift 
> > > light does not let the ECM know what gear you are in. Just the 
> > > opposite. It uses vehicle speed and engine load to turn on 
> > the shift 
> > > light so you know when to shift for best fuel economy vs. 
> > how hard you 
> > > are accelerating.
> > > 
> > > My Firebird, even though the shift light is a stock feature, has 
> 
> > > nothing to indicate to the ECM what gear the transmission is in, 
> 
> > > except 5th gear. There is a switch in the side of the 
> > transmission to 
> > > do this. It is only switched on when in 5th gear.
> > > 
> > > I'm afraid that with your Saginaw 4-speed, you won't have 
> > any way to 
> > > control the shift light in 4th gear. So when you get in top 
> > gear and 
> > > settle into a cruise mode, the shift light will switch on 
> > and stay on, 
> > > unless you give it more gas for power enrichment mode.
> > > 
> > > Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about this.
> > > 
> > > Personally, I always found the shift light to be an irritation 
> at 
> > > best. Mostly it's useless because it's neither bright 
> > enough nor in a 
> > > good position to be effective. So I have disabled it.
> > > 
> > > If you don't have a shift light installed, then don't worry 
> > about it. 
> > > It will have no affect on your tuning. But if you do have 
> > have a shift 
> > > light, or you want to be sure it can have no affect, then 
> > here are the 
> > > settings I used. The shift light circuit also controls the 
> > TCC with an 
> > > automatic transmission. I set it up to turn on the shift 
> > light ONLY if 
> > > I over-rev the engine. My self-declared red-line is 5500 rpm, 
> even 
> > > though the motor will easily rev well past 6000.
> > > Don't want to blow it up! But I doubt I'll ever notice the light 
> if 
> > > I'm revving that high!
> > > 
> > > With these settings, my shift light will not come on unless 
> > I rev past 
> > > 5500 rpm or get over 255 mph.
> > > 
> > > In the ECM Constants table (TunerCATS software):
> > >         TCC Lock, Low Gears, High Speed: 255 mph
> > >         TCC Lock, Low Gears, Low Speed: 254 mph
> > >         TCC Lock, High Gears, High Speed: 255 mph
> > >         TCC Lock, High Gears, Low Speed: 254 mph
> > >         Force Shift Light On RPM Threshold: 5500 rpm
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Dave Haggard
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org
> > > > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Darryl M 
> Gilbert
> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:04 PM
> > > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> > > > Subject: [Gmecm] 1227747 rpm vs gear table
> > > > 
> > > > Hello: Really new at this, so bear with me. Getting feet wet 
> on a 
> > > > 1227747 running a 355 TBI. Have several issues, but lets 
> > take them 
> > > > one at a time (easy ones first) There is a table associated 
> with 
> > > > SHIFT LIGHT. It appears to be able to let the ECM know 
> > what gear you 
> > > > are currently in. I would like to know what is the formula for 
> 
> > > > calculating the entries into this table. Using a 4 speed 
> > Saginaw, so 
> > > > i guess 4th is not used due to no more gears left to 
> > shift to. Does 
> > > > that make any sense?
> > > > thank you
> > > > Darryl...
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Gmecm mailing list
> > > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> > > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> > > > 
> > > > 
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