[Gmecm] SAturn engine swap

[Jay Vessels]

Hi there!

Jeff, have you done any archive surfing on this?  There was at least one 
guy that was hacking the Saturn PCM a few years ago.  The name Adam is 
rattling around in my head for some reason.

Jay Vessels
1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)

Jeff Silva wrote:
> Oh.  This isn't for the race car.  I'm working with several people to
> hack the Saturn PCM.  The problem we're having is the Saturn PCM is
> it's own design.  It seems to have it's own code and it's own ALDL data
> which is totally different from everything else.  So we're working to
> try and figure this all out so we can make some kind of software to
> make adjustments to the fuel/spark tables, rev limts, speed limters and
> etc.
> 
> We're using a Haltech E6X on the race car.  I got it to work with the
> stock igintion controller so it's a plug-and-play deal.
> 
> If anyone can help us to figure out the Saturn PCM we'd be greatly
> appreciative.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jeff Silva
> DifferentRacing.com
> 
> --- WopOnTour <wopontour at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>From: "WopOnTour" <wopontour at hotmail.com>
>>To: <webmaster at differentracing.com>,
>>	<gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Gmecm] SAturn engine swap
>>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:31:50 -0700
>>
>>Hi Jeff :)
>>
>>Does your class of racing require you to keep the Saturn ECM/PCM?
>>
>>If not, why not save your hair and go with a 1227727, 1227730 or
>>maybe 749??
>>
>>These boxes are readily available, with well documented bin/ecu
>>files, and 
>>compatible with a 4cyl speed density platform running boost. However
>>IFAIK 
>>much of the initial decompile required to get them to this point 
>>necessitated certain "leaked" details that GM/Delco couldn't keep the
>>lid 
>>on. I have never seen such details available for the Saturn
>>calibrations 
>>however. They could be out there... somewhere...but...
>>
>>I understand your brand devotion, I truly do, but IMO you could be a
>>couple 
>>years away from getting the code sorted. I went though all this with 
>>Bradley.P a few years back- I think he had an aneurism trying to do
>>it all 
>>alone.
>>
>>Not trying to deter your efforts in any way shape or form but...
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>WopOnTour
>>
>>
>>
>>PS> Have you looked at the MS for the older Saturns? another
>>potential 
>>option, if you can go stand-alone in your class
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Jeff Silva" <low_sl2 at yahoo.com>
>>To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>>Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:04 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Gmecm] SAturn engine swap
>>
>>
>>
>>>We have a guy talking to TunerCat right now.  They don't seem to
>>>ecstatic about it.  I've been thinking of throwing some money their
>>
>>way
>>
>>>but I dont like to give a company money to make something that
>>
>>they'll
>>
>>>turn around and make money off of.  Which means I just paid for
>>
>>their
>>
>>>R&D.
>>>
>>>Jeff Silva
>>>DifferentRacing.com
>>>
>>>
>>>--- David Allen <davida1 at hiwaay.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>  Have you e-mailed TunerCat?  They have some def files that are
>>
>>not
>>
>>>>listed
>>>>on the "supported ECM" list. They had a 2-bar def for the little
>>>>1226869 I
>>>>am using in my car, but it is not listed on the site. As many
>>
>>Saturns
>>
>>>>as are
>>>>out there, surely TunerCat would have a demand for this
>>
>>definition.
>>
>>>>   Good luck with the turbo.  I ran into this buying what was
>>>>supposedly a
>>>>Spal (http://www.spalusa.com) radiator fan but it was a Chinese
>>>>counterfeit.
>>>>The motor was half the size of the real thing, and the plastic
>>
>>molded
>>
>>>>fan
>>>>rotor was warped and out of balance.
>>>>  After being exposed to the heat of a radiator, the rotor warped
>>
>>so
>>
>>>>badly
>>>>it got in the radiator. Thankfully the plastic was so cheap and
>>
>>soft
>>
>>>>it
>>>>deformed before cutting the radiator core.
>>>>  And it was SUPER weak and would barely cool the 305 engine.
>>
>>Running
>>
>>>>the
>>>>A/C was WAY out of the question...
>>>>  You could see where they had taken a real Spal fan and used it
>>
>>for
>>
>>>>a
>>>>pattern to make a mold.  The Spal logo was still slightly visible,
>>
>>as
>>
>>>>were
>>>>CAST IN vestiges of where the fan they copied had balancing
>>
>>weights
>>
>>>>on it.
>>>>The fake one had cast-in "bumps" that were shaped like clip-on
>>>>balance
>>>>weights. Unreal.
>>>>  Later,
>>>>David
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: "Jeff Silva" <low_sl2 at yahoo.com>
>>>>To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>>>>Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 5:55 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Gmecm] SAturn engine swap
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for checking out our website.  We aim to please. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>We're still trying to get that company to take this turbo back.
>>>>
>>>>But
>>>>
>>>>>they're not answering their e-mails or phones.  So I'm stuck
>>
>>with a
>>
>>>>>$205 freight bill for this turbo...
>>>>>
>>>>>Now can someone help me with this .BIN file I have of a Saturn
>>>>
>>>>EPROM?
>>>>
>>>>>:)
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.differentracing.com/jeff/pcm/94_dohc_fed.bin
>>>>>
>>>>>Jeff Silva
>>>>>DifferentRacing.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--- David Allen <davida1 at hiwaay.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Jeff, I like your Different Racing website! Found your
>>
>>Chinese
>>
>>>>>>turbo story
>>>>>>particularly amusing. I can definately relate to that! I
>>
>>debated
>>
>>>>on
>>>>
>>>>>>wether
>>>>>>to buy a Turbonetics unit or a knock-off and am glad I chose
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>real
>>>>
>>>>>>McCoy.
>>>>>>Turbonetics knows their stuff and got me exactly the right
>>
>>turbo
>>
>>>>for
>>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>application.
>>>>>>  Once you've done a certain job several times it goes
>>
>>quicker. I
>>
>>>>>>certainly
>>>>>>see what you are claiming is possible on the engine R&I.
>>>>>>  Years ago (highschool age) a friend and I pulled the 440-T4
>>>>>>automatic
>>>>>>transaxle out of a FWD Buick Lesabre.  We dropped it out
>>
>>below,
>>
>>>>>>letting the
>>>>>>engine hang by 2x4 boards and chain.  It was a very dangerous
>>>>>>exercise and
>>>>>>we broke some parts in the process. I would never recommend
>>
>>this
>>
>>>>>>approach on
>>>>>>such a heavy transmission.  It is easier to pull the
>>
>>drivetrain
>>
>>>>as an
>>>>
>>>>>>assy
>>>>>>from above on these cars.
>>>>>>  These cars have a large heavy 6 cyl engine and 4 speed auto
>>>>
>>>>trans.
>>>>
>>>>>>The
>>>>>>board sagged and nothing lined back up.  We had to jack the
>>>>
>>>>engine
>>>>
>>>>>>around
>>>>>>and shim up the board to get it back into position.  After the
>>>>
>>>>trans
>>>>
>>>>>>was
>>>>>>reconnected with 2 bolts, the 2x4 broke.  The whole drivetrain
>>>>
>>>>fell
>>>>
>>>>>>into the
>>>>>>engine cradle and very nearly knocked the car off the stands.
>>
>>It
>>
>>>>>>cracked one
>>>>>>"ear" of the trans bellhousing and bent the driveplate.  The
>>
>>car
>>
>>>>ran
>>>>
>>>>>>but
>>>>>>with a vibration in the engine.
>>>>>>  After that fiasco, we borrowed an engine lift and pulled the
>>>>>>assembly "the
>>>>>>right way" to replace the bent driveplate.  Live and learn!
>>>>>>David
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>From: "Jeff Silva" <low_sl2 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:45 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Gmecm] SAturn engine swap
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Like I said before.  I've done this over a dozen times.  It
>>
>>can
>>
>>>>be
>>>>
>>>>>>>done.  You just use a load tilter.  It's easy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jeff Silva
>>>>>>>DifferentRacing.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--- Andrew Gibson <andrewsharyn at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Little tilt huh? Then why need the load tilter? I would
>>
>>like
>>
>>>>to
>>>>
>>>>>>see
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>any virgin engine get pulled out of a fwd car in less than
>>
>>1
>>
>>>>hour
>>>>
>>>>>>>>without breaking anything in the process. Now offence Jeff
>>>>
>>>>but
>>>>
>>>>>>what
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>you are describing time wise is just not possible. Maybe
>>
>>you
>>
>>>>>>could
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>tilt the motor enough to get it out the top. But that is
>>>>
>>>>still a
>>>>
>>>>>>lot
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>of work. I'll stick to dropping them out the bottom.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Oh, by the way I live in Utah. And I need to pull the
>>
>>motor
>>
>>>>out
>>>>
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>my donor truck this weekend before it snows again. I would
>>>>
>>>>like
>>>>
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>see pictures of how much tilt it take to get these out the
>>>>
>>>>top
>>>>
>>>>>>>>though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Just for the record, Cinder blocks stacked in a pyramid
>>>>
>>>>with
>>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>open end up and 2x4 on top to keep the pinchweld from
>>
>>digging
>>
>>>>>>into
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>the mortar are far more stable than any jackstand out
>>
>>there.
>>
>>>>>>>>Something about a wider base....