[Diy_efi] tiny injection
The Punisher
punisher454 at hotmail.com
Fri Jun 28 09:35:10 GMT 2002
Whoa, hold on a minute. What I got started on here was building a
Centrifugal supercharger for a "tiny" engine. I was talking a few cubes.
That can be done with a vaccum cleaner impeller and custom housing real
inexpensive and simple. The plumbing could be done real straight forward
with the butterfly upstream of the impeller with NO bypass or anything like
that.
A car setup is ALOT different. The other poster here seems to have alot of
experience in the R&D area of centrifugals, so he may be better qualified
for alot of this.
I was just saying that doing a "tiny" engine didnt have to be done like a
late model EFI car like what MOST of these seem to be targeted at.
I installed Vortech, ATI, Paxton/Novi systems on 4th gen F-body's(mostly
LT-1's). Most were inetrcooled(one brand likes to call it AFTERCOOLED) with
air-air(ATI) or water-air(Vortech). In all honesty I dont think they could
have done very much different with their basic kit designs considering the
design criteria these things had to meet. I'm talking about the plumbing of
the system, NOT the design of the blower itself.
The engine compartments are TIGHT! the hose bends are TIGHT, The clearence
between the steering shaft and the "blower" inlet in some cases is REAL
CLOSE. The inlet hose has to make a 180 right at the blower and is a REAL
BITCH to put on in some cases. The hoses have a bad tendancy to slip or blow
off at the worst times.
The T-REX "booster " pump idea dont work very well(I took 2 of them off on
the dyno because they werent making any difference). The belt's tend to slip
alot, or the tensioners fall apart(ATI). I asked if anybody used cog belts
and was told that there tended to be alot of alignment problems.
But here's the thing, on THOSE cars I dont see how you could do it much
different given the space, and requirement to leave most of the stock
components alone.
On something where you have alot of room and can position and plumb the
blower FIRST then place the accesories and evrything else AFTERWARDS you
could do alot better than those late model bolt on kits.
I also happen to think that the "kits" are WAY WAY overpriced!! I wouldnt
bitch so much about the quality if I thought the quality matched the price.
But of course their typical customer is used to paying a fortune for the
parts on the late model "muscle cars".
For example: On MY prefered type of "hot rod"(late 60's muscle cars) I have
been used to paying about $110-150 for an inexpensive seto of headers, or
about 250-300 for a REAL NICE set of headers. On a 4th gen F-body with an
LS-1 a good set of headders will set you back 600-900 bucks depending on
which kind(TTS are nice). They sure as hell aint made better than the
250-300 dollar classic muscle car headders I use.They dont leak less, they
dont flow better, they wouldnt make more HP on the dyno(with evrything else
equal), The exhaust sure dont bolt up easier, they dont have 2-3 times more
material in them to justify the price. Its all a bunch of marketing CRAP!
Try this, lookup the price for a cam from Comp cams for an LS-1, it'll be a
HYD roller. Now look the price for a HYD roller Comp Cam for a traditional
american V8. The LS-1 cam may cost over twice as much as the others, but do
you believe it costs twice as much to make?? HELL NO!! Sure maby the first
few batches while the tooling was being perfected(but most of it is done by
CNC anyhow).
This is one of My biggest gripes I have with these latemodel centrifugal
supercharger kits. Its rediculous, but I guess as long as guys line up to
plop down their money they'll keep on sellin 'em.
OKAY, FLAME AWAY!!! :)
From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
>Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
>Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:44:45 -0400
>
>You've got my attention. I have built a system from scratch and it is not
>finished yet.
>D1 Procharger, Accel single plane manifold, custom 4 barrel throttle body,
>large air to air I/C and second I/C to be figured out yet.
>Stop being so darn general and tell me what you don't like about "these
>systems".
>.
>
>Blown 407
>ElCamino
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
>To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
>Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 2:47 PM
>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
>
>
> >
> > THOSE systems are designed to be "bolt on's" without changing the
> > intake/throttlebody/etc...
> > They work okay for what they are, but there are ALOT of design
>compromises
> > made so they can fit in the crowded engine compartments of late model
>EFI
> > cars. The majority of their customers dont like to modify things. Based
>on
> > the criteria they are designed to meet, they just dont have much choice
>in
> > the design.
> > But if you were designing something from scratch, and it didnt have to
>fit
> > and look a certian way then there is alot of room for improvment.
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:01:16 -0400
> > >
> > > > Full size car centrifugals like Vortech, ATI, Paxton/NOVI and the
>like
> > > > expose the compressor to full atmospheric pressure at all times and
>have
> > >to
> > > > have a "bypass" system open most of the time, This wastes energy
>during
> > > > normal driving(its done this way to make the kits "bolt on's").
> > >
> > >Is that to say that there is a better way to do this or is it just what
> > >needs to
> > > be done by virtue of the design?
> > >
> > >
> > >
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