[Diy_efi] tiny injection

elcamino73 elcamino73 at mindspring.com
Fri Jun 28 09:56:33 GMT 2002


got ya! None of that applies to what I'm doing except the too expensive
thing. They wanted $175 for a choke pull off tied to a 1 inch butterfly
valve that leaked like a bitch when in the off position. I believe they
thought it was a blow off valve. Right back at them with that one.


Blown 407
ElCamino



----- Original Message -----
From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection


> Whoa, hold on a minute. What I got started on here was building a
> Centrifugal supercharger for a "tiny" engine. I was talking a few cubes.
> That can be done with a vaccum cleaner impeller and custom housing real
> inexpensive and simple. The plumbing could be done real straight forward
> with the butterfly upstream of the impeller with NO bypass or anything
like
> that.
>
> A car setup is ALOT different. The other poster here seems to have alot of
> experience in the R&D area of centrifugals, so he may be better qualified
> for alot of this.
> I was just saying that doing a "tiny" engine didnt have to be done like a
> late model EFI car like what MOST of these seem to be targeted at.
> I installed Vortech, ATI, Paxton/Novi systems on 4th gen F-body's(mostly
> LT-1's). Most were inetrcooled(one brand likes to call it AFTERCOOLED)
with
> air-air(ATI) or water-air(Vortech). In all honesty I dont think they could
> have done very much different with their basic kit designs considering the
> design criteria these things had to meet. I'm talking about the plumbing
of
> the system, NOT the design of the blower itself.
> The engine compartments are TIGHT! the hose bends are TIGHT, The clearence
> between the steering shaft and the "blower" inlet in some cases is REAL
> CLOSE. The inlet hose has to make a 180 right at the blower and is a REAL
> BITCH to put on in some cases. The hoses have a bad tendancy to slip or
blow
> off at the worst times.
> The T-REX "booster " pump idea dont work very well(I took 2 of them off on
> the dyno because they werent making any difference). The belt's tend to
slip
> alot, or the tensioners fall apart(ATI). I asked if anybody used cog belts
> and was told that there tended to be alot of alignment problems.
> But here's the thing, on THOSE cars I dont see how you could do it much
> different given the space, and requirement to leave most of the stock
> components alone.
> On something where you have alot of room and can position and plumb the
> blower FIRST then place the accesories and evrything else AFTERWARDS you
> could do alot better than those late model bolt on kits.
>
> I also happen to think that the "kits" are WAY WAY overpriced!! I wouldnt
> bitch so much about the quality if I thought the quality matched the
price.
> But of course their typical customer is used to paying a fortune for the
> parts on the late model "muscle cars".
> For example: On MY prefered type of "hot rod"(late 60's muscle cars) I
have
> been used to paying about $110-150 for an inexpensive seto of headers, or
> about 250-300 for a REAL NICE set of headers. On a 4th gen F-body with an
> LS-1 a good set of headders will set you back 600-900 bucks depending on
> which kind(TTS are nice). They sure as hell aint made better than the
> 250-300 dollar classic muscle car headders I use.They dont leak less, they
> dont flow better, they wouldnt make more HP on the dyno(with evrything
else
> equal), The exhaust sure dont bolt up easier, they dont have 2-3 times
more
> material in them to justify the price. Its all a bunch of marketing CRAP!
> Try this, lookup the price for a cam from Comp cams for an LS-1, it'll be
a
> HYD roller. Now look the price for a HYD roller Comp Cam for a traditional
> american V8. The LS-1 cam may cost over twice as much as the others, but
do
> you believe it costs twice as much to make?? HELL NO!! Sure maby the first
> few batches while the tooling was being perfected(but most of it is done
by
> CNC anyhow).
> This is one of My biggest gripes I have with these latemodel centrifugal
> supercharger kits. Its rediculous, but I guess as long as guys line up to
> plop down their money they'll keep on sellin 'em.
>
> OKAY, FLAME AWAY!!! :)
>
>
>
> >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> >Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:44:45 -0400
> >
> >You've got my attention. I have built a system from scratch and it is not
> >finished yet.
> >D1 Procharger, Accel single plane manifold, custom 4 barrel throttle
body,
> >large air to air I/C and second I/C to be figured out yet.
> >Stop being so darn general and tell me what you don't like about "these
> >systems".
> >.
> >
> >Blown 407
> >ElCamino
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
> >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 2:47 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> >
> >
> > >
> > > THOSE systems are designed to be "bolt on's" without changing the
> > > intake/throttlebody/etc...
> > > They work okay for what they are, but there are ALOT of design
> >compromises
> > > made so they can fit in the crowded engine compartments of late model
> >EFI
> > > cars. The majority of their customers dont like to modify things.
Based
> >on
> > > the criteria they are designed to meet, they just dont have much
choice
> >in
> > > the design.
> > > But if you were designing something from scratch, and it didnt have to
> >fit
> > > and look a certian way then there is alot of room for improvment.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > > >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:01:16 -0400
> > > >
> > > > > Full size car centrifugals like Vortech, ATI, Paxton/NOVI and the
> >like
> > > > > expose the compressor to full atmospheric pressure at all times
and
> >have
> > > >to
> > > > > have a "bypass" system open most of the time, This wastes energy
> >during
> > > > > normal driving(its done this way to make the kits "bolt on's").
> > > >
> > > >Is that to say that there is a better way to do this or is it just
what
> > > >needs to
> > > >  be done by virtue of the design?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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