[Diy_efi] tiny injection

Fri Jun 28 18:02:20 GMT 2002

Is youre throttlebody upstream or downstream of the "blower" ? and what sort 
of intake manifold, and how are you hooking the whole thing up?

From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
>Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
>Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 05:17:35 -0400
>
>got ya! None of that applies to what I'm doing except the too expensive
>thing. They wanted $175 for a choke pull off tied to a 1 inch butterfly
>valve that leaked like a bitch when in the off position. I believe they
>thought it was a blow off valve. Right back at them with that one.
>
>
>Blown 407
>ElCamino
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
>To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
>Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 5:29 AM
>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
>
>
> > Whoa, hold on a minute. What I got started on here was building a
> > Centrifugal supercharger for a "tiny" engine. I was talking a few cubes.
> > That can be done with a vaccum cleaner impeller and custom housing real
> > inexpensive and simple. The plumbing could be done real straight forward
> > with the butterfly upstream of the impeller with NO bypass or anything
>like
> > that.
> >
> > A car setup is ALOT different. The other poster here seems to have alot 
>of
> > experience in the R&D area of centrifugals, so he may be better 
>qualified
> > for alot of this.
> > I was just saying that doing a "tiny" engine didnt have to be done like 
>a
> > late model EFI car like what MOST of these seem to be targeted at.
> > I installed Vortech, ATI, Paxton/Novi systems on 4th gen F-body's(mostly
> > LT-1's). Most were inetrcooled(one brand likes to call it AFTERCOOLED)
>with
> > air-air(ATI) or water-air(Vortech). In all honesty I dont think they 
>could
> > have done very much different with their basic kit designs considering 
>the
> > design criteria these things had to meet. I'm talking about the plumbing
>of
> > the system, NOT the design of the blower itself.
> > The engine compartments are TIGHT! the hose bends are TIGHT, The 
>clearence
> > between the steering shaft and the "blower" inlet in some cases is REAL
> > CLOSE. The inlet hose has to make a 180 right at the blower and is a 
>REAL
> > BITCH to put on in some cases. The hoses have a bad tendancy to slip or
>blow
> > off at the worst times.
> > The T-REX "booster " pump idea dont work very well(I took 2 of them off 
>on
> > the dyno because they werent making any difference). The belt's tend to
>slip
> > alot, or the tensioners fall apart(ATI). I asked if anybody used cog 
>belts
> > and was told that there tended to be alot of alignment problems.
> > But here's the thing, on THOSE cars I dont see how you could do it much
> > different given the space, and requirement to leave most of the stock
> > components alone.
> > On something where you have alot of room and can position and plumb the
> > blower FIRST then place the accesories and evrything else AFTERWARDS you
> > could do alot better than those late model bolt on kits.
> >
> > I also happen to think that the "kits" are WAY WAY overpriced!! I 
>wouldnt
> > bitch so much about the quality if I thought the quality matched the
>price.
> > But of course their typical customer is used to paying a fortune for the
> > parts on the late model "muscle cars".
> > For example: On MY prefered type of "hot rod"(late 60's muscle cars) I
>have
> > been used to paying about $110-150 for an inexpensive seto of headers, 
>or
> > about 250-300 for a REAL NICE set of headers. On a 4th gen F-body with 
>an
> > LS-1 a good set of headders will set you back 600-900 bucks depending on
> > which kind(TTS are nice). They sure as hell aint made better than the
> > 250-300 dollar classic muscle car headders I use.They dont leak less, 
>they
> > dont flow better, they wouldnt make more HP on the dyno(with evrything
>else
> > equal), The exhaust sure dont bolt up easier, they dont have 2-3 times
>more
> > material in them to justify the price. Its all a bunch of marketing 
>CRAP!
> > Try this, lookup the price for a cam from Comp cams for an LS-1, it'll 
>be
>a
> > HYD roller. Now look the price for a HYD roller Comp Cam for a 
>traditional
> > american V8. The LS-1 cam may cost over twice as much as the others, but
>do
> > you believe it costs twice as much to make?? HELL NO!! Sure maby the 
>first
> > few batches while the tooling was being perfected(but most of it is done
>by
> > CNC anyhow).
> > This is one of My biggest gripes I have with these latemodel centrifugal
> > supercharger kits. Its rediculous, but I guess as long as guys line up 
>to
> > plop down their money they'll keep on sellin 'em.
> >
> > OKAY, FLAME AWAY!!! :)
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > >Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:44:45 -0400
> > >
> > >You've got my attention. I have built a system from scratch and it is 
>not
> > >finished yet.
> > >D1 Procharger, Accel single plane manifold, custom 4 barrel throttle
>body,
> > >large air to air I/C and second I/C to be figured out yet.
> > >Stop being so darn general and tell me what you don't like about "these
> > >systems".
> > >.
> > >
> > >Blown 407
> > >ElCamino
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
> > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 2:47 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > THOSE systems are designed to be "bolt on's" without changing the
> > > > intake/throttlebody/etc...
> > > > They work okay for what they are, but there are ALOT of design
> > >compromises
> > > > made so they can fit in the crowded engine compartments of late 
>model
> > >EFI
> > > > cars. The majority of their customers dont like to modify things.
>Based
> > >on
> > > > the criteria they are designed to meet, they just dont have much
>choice
> > >in
> > > > the design.
> > > > But if you were designing something from scratch, and it didnt have 
>to
> > >fit
> > > > and look a certian way then there is alot of room for improvment.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:01:16 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > > > Full size car centrifugals like Vortech, ATI, Paxton/NOVI and 
>the
> > >like
> > > > > > expose the compressor to full atmospheric pressure at all times
>and
> > >have
> > > > >to
> > > > > > have a "bypass" system open most of the time, This wastes energy
> > >during
> > > > > > normal driving(its done this way to make the kits "bolt on's").
> > > > >
> > > > >Is that to say that there is a better way to do this or is it just
>what
> > > > >needs to
> > > > >  be done by virtue of the design?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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