[Diy_efi] Re: [IDiy_efi] was tiny inj: now supercharger

elcamino73 elcamino73 at mindspring.com
Sat Jun 29 02:45:26 GMT 2002 

I just loaded the pics to the site. The names are engine, engine jpeg, air
to air, air to.

Blown 407
ElCamino



----- Original Message -----
From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] was tiny inj: now supercharger


> I wanted to load them into DIY_EFI site but this appeared to be easier. I
> didn't see any way to load into the site. I'm I missing something obvious?
>
>
> Blown 407
> ElCamino
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce" <nacelp at bright.net>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 1995 9:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] was tiny inj: now supercharger
>
>
> >
> > It wants passwords and usernames at the links
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:38 PM
> > Subject: [Diy_efi] was tiny inj: now supercharger
> >
> >
> > > I've got an Accel single plane EFI manifold which has a Holley 750
carb
> > > bored out to 1.6 bores to make what should be an 900 or so cfm
> progressive
> > > four barrel throttle body.
> > >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supercharger/files/elcamino73/2002-04-15%2073.
> > > bmp
> > > On top of that will reside the secondary intercooler, The soon to be
> shiny
> > > cap for it will stick through the hood.
> > >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supercharger/files/elcamino73/air%20to%20water
> > > .JPG The charge air will flow through what would normally be the
ambient
> > > side with either freon or 32 degree water flowing inside it. The air
to
> > air
> > > intercooler will be in front of the radiator.
> > >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supercharger/files/elcamino73/air%20to%20air.J
> > > PG It is the larger of the three pictured. All the piping is 3",
> including
> > > the mandrel bent 90 degree elbows. It is 90% installed at this point
but
> > > there is still a lot of work left.
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supercharger/files/elcamino73/engine.JPG
> As
> > > you can see it uses a 12 rib serpentine drive belt dedicated to the
> > blower.
> > > I've got access to a machinist who can dice up a set of cog pulleys if
> the
> > > serps slip. Which according to some one I trust more than ATI says
will
> > > indeed happen at 15psi. If I go that route I'll step up the blower
speed
> > to
> > > 65,000 RPM and try and pull 18 psi. I've got the fuel and air to do
it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Blown 407
> > > ElCamino
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
> > > To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 2:02 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > >
> > >
> > > > Is youre throttlebody upstream or downstream of the "blower" ? and
> what
> > > sort
> > > > of intake manifold, and how are you hooking the whole thing up?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > > > >Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 05:17:35 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > >got ya! None of that applies to what I'm doing except the too
> expensive
> > > > >thing. They wanted $175 for a choke pull off tied to a 1 inch
> butterfly
> > > > >valve that leaked like a bitch when in the off position. I believe
> they
> > > > >thought it was a blow off valve. Right back at them with that one.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Blown 407
> > > > >ElCamino
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
> > > > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > > >Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 5:29 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Whoa, hold on a minute. What I got started on here was building
a
> > > > > > Centrifugal supercharger for a "tiny" engine. I was talking a
few
> > > cubes.
> > > > > > That can be done with a vaccum cleaner impeller and custom
housing
> > > real
> > > > > > inexpensive and simple. The plumbing could be done real straight
> > > forward
> > > > > > with the butterfly upstream of the impeller with NO bypass or
> > anything
> > > > >like
> > > > > > that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A car setup is ALOT different. The other poster here seems to
have
> > > alot
> > > > >of
> > > > > > experience in the R&D area of centrifugals, so he may be better
> > > > >qualified
> > > > > > for alot of this.
> > > > > > I was just saying that doing a "tiny" engine didnt have to be
done
> > > like
> > > > >a
> > > > > > late model EFI car like what MOST of these seem to be targeted
at.
> > > > > > I installed Vortech, ATI, Paxton/Novi systems on 4th gen
> > > F-body's(mostly
> > > > > > LT-1's). Most were inetrcooled(one brand likes to call it
> > AFTERCOOLED)
> > > > >with
> > > > > > air-air(ATI) or water-air(Vortech). In all honesty I dont think
> they
> > > > >could
> > > > > > have done very much different with their basic kit designs
> > considering
> > > > >the
> > > > > > design criteria these things had to meet. I'm talking about the
> > > plumbing
> > > > >of
> > > > > > the system, NOT the design of the blower itself.
> > > > > > The engine compartments are TIGHT! the hose bends are TIGHT, The
> > > > >clearence
> > > > > > between the steering shaft and the "blower" inlet in some cases
is
> > > REAL
> > > > > > CLOSE. The inlet hose has to make a 180 right at the blower and
is
> a
> > > > >REAL
> > > > > > BITCH to put on in some cases. The hoses have a bad tendancy to
> slip
> > > or
> > > > >blow
> > > > > > off at the worst times.
> > > > > > The T-REX "booster " pump idea dont work very well(I took 2 of
> them
> > > off
> > > > >on
> > > > > > the dyno because they werent making any difference). The belt's
> tend
> > > to
> > > > >slip
> > > > > > alot, or the tensioners fall apart(ATI). I asked if anybody used
> cog
> > > > >belts
> > > > > > and was told that there tended to be alot of alignment problems.
> > > > > > But here's the thing, on THOSE cars I dont see how you could do
it
> > > much
> > > > > > different given the space, and requirement to leave most of the
> > stock
> > > > > > components alone.
> > > > > > On something where you have alot of room and can position and
> plumb
> > > the
> > > > > > blower FIRST then place the accesories and evrything else
> AFTERWARDS
> > > you
> > > > > > could do alot better than those late model bolt on kits.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also happen to think that the "kits" are WAY WAY overpriced!!
I
> > > > >wouldnt
> > > > > > bitch so much about the quality if I thought the quality matched
> the
> > > > >price.
> > > > > > But of course their typical customer is used to paying a fortune
> for
> > > the
> > > > > > parts on the late model "muscle cars".
> > > > > > For example: On MY prefered type of "hot rod"(late 60's muscle
> cars)
> > I
> > > > >have
> > > > > > been used to paying about $110-150 for an inexpensive seto of
> > headers,
> > > > >or
> > > > > > about 250-300 for a REAL NICE set of headers. On a 4th gen
F-body
> > with
> > > > >an
> > > > > > LS-1 a good set of headders will set you back 600-900 bucks
> > depending
> > > on
> > > > > > which kind(TTS are nice). They sure as hell aint made better
than
> > the
> > > > > > 250-300 dollar classic muscle car headders I use.They dont leak
> > less,
> > > > >they
> > > > > > dont flow better, they wouldnt make more HP on the dyno(with
> > evrything
> > > > >else
> > > > > > equal), The exhaust sure dont bolt up easier, they dont have 2-3
> > times
> > > > >more
> > > > > > material in them to justify the price. Its all a bunch of
> marketing
> > > > >CRAP!
> > > > > > Try this, lookup the price for a cam from Comp cams for an LS-1,
> > it'll
> > > > >be
> > > > >a
> > > > > > HYD roller. Now look the price for a HYD roller Comp Cam for a
> > > > >traditional
> > > > > > american V8. The LS-1 cam may cost over twice as much as the
> others,
> > > but
> > > > >do
> > > > > > you believe it costs twice as much to make?? HELL NO!! Sure maby
> the
> > > > >first
> > > > > > few batches while the tooling was being perfected(but most of it
> is
> > > done
> > > > >by
> > > > > > CNC anyhow).
> > > > > > This is one of My biggest gripes I have with these latemodel
> > > centrifugal
> > > > > > supercharger kits. Its rediculous, but I guess as long as guys
> line
> > up
> > > > >to
> > > > > > plop down their money they'll keep on sellin 'em.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OKAY, FLAME AWAY!!! :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > > > > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > > > > > >Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:44:45 -0400
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >You've got my attention. I have built a system from scratch and
> it
> > is
> > > > >not
> > > > > > >finished yet.
> > > > > > >D1 Procharger, Accel single plane manifold, custom 4 barrel
> > throttle
> > > > >body,
> > > > > > >large air to air I/C and second I/C to be figured out yet.
> > > > > > >Stop being so darn general and tell me what you don't like
about
> > > "these
> > > > > > >systems".
> > > > > > >.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Blown 407
> > > > > > >ElCamino
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
> > > > > > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 2:47 PM
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > THOSE systems are designed to be "bolt on's" without
changing
> > the
> > > > > > > > intake/throttlebody/etc...
> > > > > > > > They work okay for what they are, but there are ALOT of
design
> > > > > > >compromises
> > > > > > > > made so they can fit in the crowded engine compartments of
> late
> > > > >model
> > > > > > >EFI
> > > > > > > > cars. The majority of their customers dont like to modify
> > things.
> > > > >Based
> > > > > > >on
> > > > > > > > the criteria they are designed to meet, they just dont have
> much
> > > > >choice
> > > > > > >in
> > > > > > > > the design.
> > > > > > > > But if you were designing something from scratch, and it
didnt
> > > have
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >fit
> > > > > > > > and look a certian way then there is alot of room for
> > improvment.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > > > > > > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:01:16 -0400
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Full size car centrifugals like Vortech, ATI,
Paxton/NOVI
> > and
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >like
> > > > > > > > > > expose the compressor to full atmospheric pressure at
all
> > > times
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >have
> > > > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > > > have a "bypass" system open most of the time, This
wastes
> > > energy
> > > > > > >during
> > > > > > > > > > normal driving(its done this way to make the kits "bolt
> > > on's").
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Is that to say that there is a better way to do this or is
it
> > > just
> > > > >what
> > > > > > > > >needs to
> > > > > > > > >  be done by virtue of the design?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > >Diy_efi mailing list
> > > > > > > > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > > > > > > >http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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